Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: GBHunter on March 27, 2014, 12:38 AM

Title: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on March 27, 2014, 12:38 AM
I have tried for four years only to come up with &*%-
 :'(  So I think I will be giving up this hobby, I'm just venting btw.
I look at the images here and compare to mine they look amazing even from beginners. The Four Season Club here takes this moronic approach that the tree should reflect your I er feelings...ha *&%$ All I feel is rage,hatred and frustration. I JUST CANT SEE IT! No matter how many pictures I look a I just can't see the steps to get there!

I give.
Sorry just had to vent
I'm OCD so it kills me I can't do this...for God sake I cant sleep for 3 days because I can't find something I miss placed.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Sorce on March 27, 2014, 06:00 AM
Take GB as "good bonsai", and Hunt one!  It will help.  ;D

And look at real trees. Intensely, extensively, for the clues within. Scars, branches, trunks, twists, bends, breaks, leaves, buds. I like to imagine how they grew. And try to write a timeline of events that got them there. While some lightning and strong winds may remove some limbs, it is mostly Addition..... Of great time.

I feel like you are trying to "subtract" from the previously posted material, to achieve your bonsai "Within". (Because of stupid #$&%ing "demos", that make every newbie think that)

Attempt to see the addition. The invisible, evasive, time. The bonsai "without".
While somehow everything collected by Walter Pall in Croatia has a bonsai within, most material, yours included, is a bonsai without.

Only some material can be reduced to a "almost bonsai". Most get reduced to trunks "without"... Branches. Enter Time.

If all you feel is rage hatred and frustration, I would love to see a tree reflect that, impart it.
It would be excellent art. Think Eminem.












Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: MatsuBonsai on March 27, 2014, 08:54 AM
Don't let it get you down.  Find another like minded person in your area and work on trees together.  

Work on the horticultural aspects if the artistic aspects aren't as quick to come.  There's just as much to learn regarding the health of the trees as there is the artistic.

Draw trees you like.  Just start by mimicking, even if just stick figures to start.  For example, where would key branches look best on informal uprights, slanting styles, etc?  Should formal upright trees have straight or curved branches?  There's plenty to learn, and that's part of the fun of this journey.

And of course, keep sharing and asking questions here.

We all have felt (and continue to feel) a little discouraged at one time or another.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Judy on March 27, 2014, 09:45 AM
If the club you are in has the wrong approach FOR YOU, then you should stop going, and/or find a new one.  This hobby isn't supposed to make you so frustrated, rather the opposite.  Four years is not that long of a time in bonsai years, so perhaps your turning point is just around the bend... Have you ever tried learning from books on the subject?  I find them good sources of inspiration even still when I pick one up, and many have step by steps on how to go about it.  There is no one way to learn bonsai, and clubs are not for everyone.  Maybe time for a one on one mentoring if you are serious about wanting to move forward.
At any rate, try not to prune anything when you are raging.... :o
but then again, maybe that tree will come out a masterpiece! :P
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Jay on March 27, 2014, 10:26 AM
GB....Don't give up!
You will be rewarded for your time and effort.
J
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: jlushious on March 27, 2014, 10:50 AM
GB I am new as well (less than a year!) and I definitely feel like I am missing a huge part of the "artistic" side of this art. But as John said, drawing trees has really helped me. I look at the trunk shape of a tree I have and sketch it out (just the trunk shape) and then sketch in where I might like foliage to go - while referencing photos in books or online of comparable trees.

I'm years away from actually SEEING any doodles take shape, but it gives me something to work towards artistically.

Not that it's really worth looking at, but this blog post I did has a small tree (on a 5" pot!) and the doodle I did for it http://bonsaicalgary.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/eastern-hemlock/ (http://bonsaicalgary.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/eastern-hemlock/)

We are talking like 20 years in the future, but it will help me keep perspective. The doodle I made based on googling "hemlock twin trunk" - it gave me lots of design ideas.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on March 28, 2014, 01:05 AM
You guys are right. I did email back and forth with a bonsai expert...a rebel bonsai guy :-)  he stated that he very much detests the current state of bonsai as it does not represent things in the wild but more of a botanical painting. Strange looking at things that way. What do you ladies and gents think?
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Sorce on March 28, 2014, 01:31 AM
I follow the rebellion. ;)
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Don Blackmond on March 28, 2014, 06:48 AM
GBHunter don't give up.  Where in Michigan are you?  Shoot me an email.  I'll hook you up.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: MatsuBonsai on March 28, 2014, 08:07 AM
It's important to know what you like and setting goals. For me, there is nothing better than contemporary Japanese. So, I study and employ those techniques and styles.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on March 28, 2014, 08:53 AM
  Sometimes we all get frustrated dude.Take Mr. Blackmonds invite. I would in a heartbeat! If he didn't live three hours away from me I'd be there all of the time.(he would probably get tired of my face after a while though)  You have great bonsai opportunities where you live. I'm 180 miles to the north of you and not so much bonsai activity up here. None but me actually. I learned the old fashion way. All by myself and an old book from the library. Don't give up. Try somebody different like Don I'm sure he will help you out immensely.
 Here is one of mine. Hinoki Cypress. Bought last spring at a nursery in Bay City. Just a nursery not a bonsai nursery. It has a few problems(like some bar branches and that nasty graft union but hey! It's mine and I still love it. You can do this too. Really.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on March 28, 2014, 09:07 AM
  Us Michigan guys got to stick together!
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Judy on March 28, 2014, 09:08 AM
As far as deciding that any one style or form of bonsai is "wrong" I think that's rubbish.  Everyone must and will decide for themselves how their trees will be, and how they form a bond with them.  And not only that, but the thought of right way and wrong way is in itself very limiting. Of course there are "rules" for a reason, and they should serve as basic guidelines to form a pleasing composition.
I may not like all the differing bonsai forms, but I respect them, and feel no need to disparage them.  And I find that as I've grown in bonsai that some of the things I wasn't drawn to before, started to speak to me as I moved along.  I think you should keep an open mind and eye about these things.
my.02.

BTW, if you don't take Don up on his generous offer, you will miss out....
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: bwaynef on March 28, 2014, 09:53 AM
GBHunter don't give up.  Where in Michigan are you?  Shoot me an email.  I'll hook you up.

That's the kind of invitation I'd like to have had when I was 4 years into bonsai.  For everybody out here who has felt like you have before and NOT had such a generous offer, you kind of HAVE to take him up on it!

...or we might have to ban you.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on March 29, 2014, 12:24 AM
  If he doesn't can I?
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on March 29, 2014, 01:29 AM
I did reply it is great to have some invite that is so highly regarded :-)
I do like the picture of the Hynoki. Thank you for all the encouragement.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Don Blackmond on March 29, 2014, 07:46 AM
  If he doesn't can I?

yep, shoot me an email
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on March 30, 2014, 06:43 AM
 I was just kidding. But thank you anyway and the invite really means a lot
 I am going to try to get way down there on the lower left coast and was thinking on paying you a visit later this year. Thank you again Don't
 That is an awesome guy.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on March 30, 2014, 12:08 PM
  If he doesn't can I?

yep, shoot me an email
I wou, d love to take you up on your invite!!!
please email me
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on March 30, 2014, 12:13 PM
  If he doesn't can I?

yep, shoot me an email

I accept you most very generous invite. I sent you my e-mail.
Thank you so much.
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on March 30, 2014, 01:52 PM
  See there you go. Excellent invitation and opportunity. Good luck!
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Gaffer on March 31, 2014, 09:10 PM
Mr frary
Nice start on a hinoki. You have to change that pot. It might be nice as a pot for a wisteria, or some flowering deciduous material .qualicum Brian
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: GBHunter on April 05, 2014, 05:29 PM
GBHunter don't give up.  Where in Michigan are you?  Shoot me an email.  I'll hook you up.
I sent you a private message. I cannot seem to be to answer your emails as whenever I see sea
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on April 06, 2014, 04:47 PM
A good rule of thumb for me has been- do not ever give up, ever give up, EVER give, E.V.E.R. on anything you love :)
Title: Re: i think ill call this a loss
Post by: M. Frary on April 08, 2014, 09:38 PM
Mr frary
Nice start on a hinoki. You have to change that pot. It might be nice as a pot for a wisteria, or some flowering deciduous material .qualicum Brian
Thanks. And yes the pot. What can I say about that ... pot.
The reason the tree is in that thing is the root base is real wide and kind of deep. I'm on the lookout for a 12 to 14" deeper unglazed rectangle or maybe oval. Not sure yet. It needs to be deeper too because these things like the water.