Interesting. Skill wether learned in Japan, here or anywhere else for that matter in my mind is only a small but necessary contributor to a great tree. All to often we forget that this is an art form. Skills can be taught, improved and maybe mastered but not everyone who can learn the bonsai skills has an eye to produce a great tree. I study with a Japanese trained individual 3 times a year (This is my third year) not only to improve my skill but because he sees things in trees I do not. I have had and take workshops and classes for the same reason. All the great artist had students that learned the skills but not many produced masterpieces. I can do a very good job at what i'll call refrigerator art but do I have the gift to develop a great design without the aid of an master artist. Not sure only time will tell.

My initial thoughts,

JRob

Al, I hear ya.

I can't speak for Mr. Gremel, and his style of teaching, but I understand where you're coming from.

I have horses, and I wanted to learn Natural Horsemanship.  There are two famous "Clinicians" who sell training programs:  Pat Parelli, and Clinton Anderson.  (There are more, but I will just briefly discuss these two.)

Pat Parelli drives me crazy.  He's obviously a gifted horseman, but his shows, TV, etc show you what he can do with a trained horse.  His style is to show you all the marvelious things he can do with a horse, and you can too, if you buy his program.

Clinton Anderson is different.  His shows use untrained stock, and he trains them before your very eyes.  He shows you what he would do to train, and just does it.  I've seen him live, at clinics, and own his DVDs.  He does bring along a finished horse, and gives a demo ride to show what the final results should produce.

I obviously prefer Anderson.  Others prefer Parelli.  Maybe it's a left brained/right brained thing.

For bonsai, I think one of the things the kids are learning by being apprentices is they are surrounded by the best bonsai in the world.  They work on great material, and learn how to make it even better.

Peter Tea sent me a blog the other day, and it discussed a black pine and how it was re-styled.  Peter did a great job photographing it from all angles, and one of the major improvements was to the apex.  To make the trunk look larger the apex was "lowered".  Ok... so they chopped the top, right?  Uh, no.  They lowered the apex by pulling it down in front.  Foreshortening it.  You really can't tell when looking at the photo from the front.  But when you look at a side photo, why that tree is almost falling out of the pot leaning forward!  It's a "trick of the eye"!  You woud never be able to pick that up by looking at the tree from the front.

Anyway, Peter showed us "how it's done".  Just think how it would be possible to pick up on techniques like that if you lived, breathed, ate bonsai 24/7 like they do?

Anyway, that little tip got me out in the garden today, and I messed around with a JWP that I've been unhappy with the apex.  And I found that if I just moved the apex straight forward towards the front, it lowered it, rounded it, and made it better.  I bet those guys get an "Ah ha!" moment like that every day!

Can they teach it?  Time will tell.  Some may become bonsai Parellis.  Others more like Anderson.  Good thing is we will have new talents to choose from.

I personally am very grateful for what they do, and I enjoy their blogs.  And I wish them every success.

While reading the first post, another point came to mind. It is one thing to learn a skill from the best, but another to be able to actually teach those skills to others. Teaching is an art in itself. I have been to seminars where, when it was over, I'm thinking , " what in the world was he talking about". And I have been to seminars where I'm singing " I saw the light" all the way home. Larry

I think most people don't completely grasp what a Japanese-trained teacher is showing them. The teacher really doesn't have to keep anything "secret" because techniques have become second nature to him. He performs them so easily and efficiently, that students miss most of what he's getting at even if they're staring right at it.

Take Cesar "Dog Whisperer" Milan as an example of the "hide in plain sight" kind of instruction. There are no "secrets" to his methods, but people don't see what he's actually doing to train a canine. His techniques are simple and direct, if you know what you're looking at and are very familiar with how dogs works. Doesn't hurt if you grew up in a multiple dog household either.

He is so effecient at non-verbal communication with the animal, that people assume he's performing some kind of magic, or at least speaks dog language. Not really true. Boils down to a lifelong (or long term) relationship with what he's working with every day.

In other words, I guess, asking a teacher "Why" is as important as asking how a technique works. Understand why it's done and the path to doing it opens up--regardless of the exact manipulations done by the teacher.

Theers speilcheke?

I don't think it so much that anything they learn in Japan is  a secret, much of it is so much minutia and timing. I have the whole diary of Kathy Shaner when she was in Japan. I have read it so many times much of it is burnt into my brain. I remember her working on Crytomeria and leaning on branches while thinning areas not worked on yet. Teacher would scold her because the new clipped areas were prone to browning by bruising the exposed edge by leaning on it. "NO browning on client's trees".

These things may become second nature as it is heard a few times around the nursery. This tip may come about maybe two or three times in Kathy's career as something to be passed on. Would someone consider this a secret? I don't know.

The better teachers will evaluate what you're ready for.  Attempting a technique without proper knowledge of it's execution, preparation, or aftercare is a dangerous proposition.

Thats where I fall off. Even if just a theory I try it. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I feel that every technique had to be tried by someone sooner or later. I have not seen any technique done to a simple tree that would lead me to believe it was a dangerous proposition.

I feel more in danger when I get in my truck in the morning and enter the hiway to go to work. Now thats danger. Working on a tree, dead or alive is pure joy.