Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Dano on July 29, 2009, 04:33 PM

Title: HB-101
Post by: Dano on July 29, 2009, 04:33 PM
Is anyone familiar with HB-101? How and why did you use it. I spoke with Dan Quattlebaum with Brussels Bonsai and Dana suggested I use it for a Hynoki Cypress in distress. Any thoughts??

Dan
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Rick Moquin on July 29, 2009, 08:39 PM
Interesting question! Raising several cultivars of Hinokis, not too many bonsaiist do, I would be curious to see what he had to say before exchanging in a lengthy conversation on the subject
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Dano on July 29, 2009, 09:57 PM
Rick,
Dana said to remove all fertilizers. Put in shady area and use HB 101, one teaspoon to the gallon. HB-101 is not a fertilizer but a an growth enhancer. 3.5 ounces cost $29. Pretty expensive for a $25 tree. it is a young plant, twin trunk and great potential, so I thought  IWOULD GIVE IT A TRY.

Dan
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Rick Moquin on July 29, 2009, 10:13 PM
Dano,

What caused the tree to go into distress? There has been allot of talk wrt HB-101 and whether it is beneficial to the tree or the owner. I do not wish to go down that road as it has been discussed ad nausium in the past not to dissimilar to soil recipes, but always willing to help a fellow practitioner in need.

How long have you had the tree?
What type of soil is it in?
Watering frequency?
Feeding frequency? What?
Sun exposure?
When was it last repotted?
What did you do etc...
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: noissee on July 30, 2009, 01:38 AM
This is interesting. I was actually in Brussels (the city in Belgium) and went to Bauwen's bonsai nursery, and he had some similar stuff for sale. He said that it was not a fertilizer, but was more like a vitamin, or energy supplement for plants. He said he gave it to his sick plants like medicine. I cannot be sure that it was called HB-101, but I it sounds like similar stuff.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: rockm on July 30, 2009, 08:56 AM
I don't know. If you read the hb-101 website, it sounds an awful lot like Superthrive--undefined mysterious "extracts" and fuzzy ingredients that aren't fertilizers (but the site lists fertilizer content anyway).

http://www.hb-101.com/shop/information.php?info_id=7 (http://www.hb-101.com/shop/information.php?info_id=7)

Try it. Hopefully, it might do some good (although it will cost you), and again hopefully it won't do any harm.

Getting to the bottom of WHY the plant is weak (bad soil, root loss, insects, etc) is a much better  solution than dumping mysterious compounds on it.

Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Dano on August 01, 2009, 02:49 PM
Thanks guys, I also thought it sounded like Super Thrive. I will give it a shot and report back

Dan
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Rick Moquin on August 04, 2009, 07:34 PM
Thanks guys, I also thought it sounded like Super Thrive. I will give it a shot and report back

Dan
..........ah my dear friend :) you don't get off that easy  ;) you need to answer the previously asked questions if you wan't us to help you out. Nothing in bonsai is that simple or cut and dry.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Dano on August 04, 2009, 09:09 PM
Rick,

I thought I might get off easy.

How long have you had the tree? 1 year
What type of soil is it in? Good well draining bonsai soil
Watering frequency? too much, each day
Feeding frequency?  once every month     What? Osmocote
Sun exposure? Full Sun, now in the shade
When was it last repotted? early spring
What did you do etc... The Hynoki Cypress looked great for while and then the the needle pads began to turn brownish and brittle.  It is in well draining soil. I have since soaked it in HB 101 and misted it daily.

Dan



Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: rockm on August 05, 2009, 08:46 AM
"Feeding frequency?  once every month     What? Osmocote"

This might have something to do with it---Are you applying Osmocote every month? If so you are overloading the tree. Osmocote is time release. One application is good for months... Applying it repeatedly in such a short time can result in "burning" roots and foliage...Sick trees should not be fertilized.

You also mention "too much each day." Overwatering is the primary cause of problems in bonsai. Dried out foliage can be a result of overwatering as soggy soil promotes root rot, which kills roots, which can no longer transfer moisture to foliage. Since the foliage is dry, some assume the tree is being underwatered and water even more...which is the last thing that should happen.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Rick Moquin on August 05, 2009, 09:34 AM
Rick,

I thought I might get off easy.

Nope  ;D

Quote
How long have you had the tree? 1 year
What type of soil is it in? Good well draining bonsai soil
Watering frequency? too much, each day
Feeding frequency?  once every month     What? Osmocote
Sun exposure? Full Sun, now in the shade
When was it last repotted? early spring
What did you do etc... The Hynoki Cypress looked great for while and then the the needle pads began to turn brownish and brittle.  It is in well draining soil. I have since soaked it in HB 101 and misted it daily.

Dan

Hinokli care sheet (http://www.bonsai-bci.com/species/hinoki.html)

Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuum,

I expected a little more information than that. You answered the questions but didn't explain the Hinoki's life for the last year.

Osmocote, I don't use it. It is for people that are too lazy to look after their plants/trees. Many do use it and I am not denying that, but you have no control over the release cycle etc... As you might of guessed by now, I hate the stuff.

Bonsai soil is another touchy subject. What is the soils composition? How long has it been in it? What was it is before? How much root work was carried out after repotting? Where was it placed after repotting? What was the feeding after repotting etc? Most believe they have a good soil only to find out it requires adjustment. My Hinokis do not get watered everyday and I have fast draining soil. Sometimes they get watered twice a day.

Define early spring and what exactly blow by blow did you do during the repot. Was it styled and wired? etc...
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: bonsaikc on August 05, 2009, 10:18 AM

Osmocote, I don't use it. It is for people that are too lazy to look after their plants/trees. Many do use it and I am not denying that, but you have no control over the release cycle etc... As you might of guessed by now, I hate the stuff.


On the other hand, Rick, Osmocote is a good supplement to an otherwise organic feeding regimen. Relying solely on Osmocote would be a mistake, I agree with you there. But a light application of Osmocote among the regular feeding can be helpful, if it is not overdone.

Chris
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Rick Moquin on August 05, 2009, 11:30 AM
It is unsightly, unreliable, and what I get here does not meet my NPK criteria amongst other things.

Perhaps lazy was a bad choice of words and no offense was intended. Osmocote is a good substitute for folks who do not wish to fuss over things e.g a handful in a hanging basket etc...

I prefer knowing and controlling the feeding rate of my trees. I hate using combinations of fertilizer as well. Should your ferts contain the necessary micro/macro nutrients, then what's the problem.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: mcpesq817 on August 05, 2009, 01:32 PM
I use a little bit of Osmocote on my trees as well (less than the suggested dosage), in addition to using organics and inorganics.  My trees don't seem to mind it.

But I'd second what Rockm said - if I remember correctly, the instruction label said that Osmocote applications last something like 3-4 months.  If you're putting the recommended dosage down every month, you could be asking for trouble.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: Steven on August 05, 2009, 06:18 PM
Yes, "lazy" IS a bad choice of words. I use Osmocote sparingly but not on a hanging basket. Now I can say I've been a good boy and not used any at all this year. :-X
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: meushi on August 06, 2009, 02:07 AM
Osmocote is actually not that bad, one of the big French nurseries did a series of tests a couple of years ago and found that it was the fertilizer that gave the most mycorrhization in potted plants. They then promptly played down that result as it was not compatible with their ideological campaign against chemical fertilizers.

For French readers, I can link to a thread where one of their guys admits the result and their reason for not spreading the info more.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: bretts on August 06, 2009, 08:43 AM
Osmacote time release fert works great for me spread through the soil at repotting time. The idea is that the roots go looking for it. I don't tend to use it after that though.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: rockm on August 06, 2009, 09:16 AM
Osomocote is not a great fertilizer for bonsai, IMO.

It's been known to occasionally kill plants if applied incorrectly, or even correctly. The central issue is "dumping." The polymer shell on individual pellets is temperature and moisture activated--once the temperature rises above 65 degrees F or so, the fertilizer inside can get out when the plant is watered...That can be OK if the temp increase is gradual, but in the spring, when temps may spike suddenly, the bonsaiist waters heavily and the fertilizer is "dumped" in a large dose that may result in root burn--or even death of the plant it has been applied to. The problem is that there is no way to actually know how much fertilizer has been released. By hand mixing something like MiracleGrow or any other prepared powdered mix, the bonsaiist knows the dose and can control it.

Most of this is anecdotal, but this comes up repeatedly on many types of gardening forums. I've heard professional bonsai growers say they've lost thousands of dollars of stock plant because of it. They no longer use it in any form.

There is some evidence that a heavy fertilizing regime can inhibit mycorrhization. I've observed this to some extent in my bonsai.
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: King Kong on August 06, 2009, 09:47 AM
First of all Osmocote is a brand name owned by Scotts. There are many coated prill fertilizers with timed release mechanisms due to different coating formulas. Some are better for your needs. The question is what are you trying to do with the fertilizer. Now if you dump coated prills on top of the soil and put the plant in 100 degree weather chances are there will be a problem. If you blend the proper amount of fertilizer with the soil like it was designed to be used, the products will do much better with far less chance of burning.

__gary

Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: rockm on August 06, 2009, 10:02 AM
Well, yeah, but there's still more of a chance that any prill fert can burn your plants (although it's not really a huge chance), just because you have no real control over the "when" and "how much" is released. That's a function of the polymer coating, temperature and water.

That's too many unnecessary variables for me. I just dump a measured tablespoon of whatever's on sale into a bucket, add the prescribed amount of water and use when it's appropriate...
Title: Re: HB-101
Post by: King Kong on August 06, 2009, 11:19 AM
Some of the best growers in my area use half strength liquid fertilizers weekly for both foliar spray and root drench application.

__gary