Author Topic: Greenhouse Pictures  (Read 7067 times)

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 09:36 AM »
Judy, I talked yesterday to the Bonsai Curator at the Ch. Bot. Garden, and he puts everything in the overwintering house, exc. trees such as Ponderosa Pines, Limber Pines....basically anything that came from a high elev. and is used to having snow dumped on it. 

And Yes, I finally looked at the overwintering house at the Garden, and it is pretty opaque...I can't believe, after walking past it at least 50X, and I never noticed it before!  Aargh!  But again, Thanks Bill V. for the post.  I'm going to find out Mond. what kind of paint I can use.   
 

John Kirby

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 03:18 PM »
You can use White wash, just about anything cheap. Green house suppliers sell whitewash for Greenhouses (glass and plastic. You are going to need to replace your plastic after a year or two anyway (depends on plastic type, wind exposure, dogs, etc).  The other thing that you can do is put a layer of white plastic over the clear one, It will handle the UV until you are ready to take the plastic off in late spring.

Just a thought.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 03:39 PM »
Thanks John.  You're absolutely right, I planned on buying new plastic next year anyway.  So a cheap white paint is the way to go.  I think a water based latex as an oil based paint might 'melt' the plastic.  But had I planned on leaving it up yr. round, that greenhouse whitewash products pretty cool. 
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2011, 12:17 PM »
Ok, I managed to get a day off work, on a sunny day.  Just that the high today and tom is in the 40s.  So I'm going to have to buy a cold weather (down to 35F) formulation when I hit Home Depot in a bit.  I'm just glad I got two days of sun.  It's been raining everyday for seems like the last week, and looks like rain sat thru next tues.  So gotta get going here but wanted to update the thread.
Thanks again everyone for the help!!
 

Josh

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2011, 02:02 PM »
Regarding (unwanted) heat gain in your coldhouse/greenhouse...

John has a very valid point.  I started bonsai in the Pacific Northwest, where I used no winter protection.  Since I have moved to the Midwest, and had the benefit of a glass greenhouse with a ventilation system which was able to limited unwanted heat gain.  My last move to South Dakota resulted in me building a coldhouse, similar to yours.

This coldhouse has two layers of clear poly in which a fan is used to inflate the space between the two layers of poly.  I use a propane greenhouse heater which keeps away the frigid cold, yet springtime is the biggest challenge.  On a clear March day, temps can and do rise and the trees push early.  I have not used white poly, yet it appears to be a great suggestion.  Currently I have an early spring, with leafing out in March/April, when outside temps still fall below freezing at night.  I have come to enjoy the early spring, but understand I need to be careful.

Has anyone experienced exhausting trees, with a spring too early?  I recognize that the new leaves need protection, such that they aren't put outside, or allowed to freeze before outside temps catch up.

Thoughts?
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2011, 04:09 PM »
I don't know about early leaf protection Josh.  But I like the dual layered poly idea, must deal with inside condensation quite a bit.  My single layer has condensation a lot, so I need figure that one out still.

I was planning on using what I have for heat, one small forced air heater, and one of those oil filled floor heaters...maybe I should consider a propane heater, might be faster to heat and faster to cool off.

I managed to get one coat of paint on today.  Might just need one coat as this was a primer and paint in one.  I'll see tom. when I can open the door and see how much light is coming in.  Man, I wish I had gotten the right poly from the beginning!
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2011, 12:31 PM »
Just an update.  Got two coats of white paint on the hoop house.   I finally got all the trees put away yesterday.  Have a box fan going 24/7 for circulation...wish I had a small oscillating fan though instead.  I have a 6" Fantech fan for when humidity raises and the heater, both controlled with the Green Air product.  The only thing I wish I had was an automatic vent, though I think me just opening the door will do the trick.  Lastly, haven't decided to do a 20% Lime Sulfur spray. 

Thanks again Bill and all for the help!
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2011, 09:08 PM »
Interesting thread. Nice to know about the white poly, for future reference.

Chris, if you're talking about lime-sulfur for a spray-down before winter, you don't want 20%! You want 20:1 at the strongest.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2011, 09:57 AM »
Really Steve?  I could've sworn it was 20%.  Thanks, I'll look into that again.
Chris
 

coh

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2011, 10:29 AM »
I seem to remember discussing this once before. The one source I've seen on the internet states that a dilution of approximately 1:25 to 1:50 should be used for winter application as an insecticide/fungicide. That source is the bonsai4me website, specifically http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics%20Bonsai%20MythsLimeSulphur.htm

Chris
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2011, 10:11 AM »
Thanks Chris, thought so.  Thanks for the link!
 

coh

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2011, 12:55 AM »
Interestingly, I was browsing through an older (2006) issue of International Bonsai this morning, and what did I find in an article about crabapples: "After the crabapple drops its leaves if you find scale insects spray with 20% lime-sulfur solution." Yikes! Do people really use that intensity of lime-sulfur as a spray or is it a misprint?
 

John Kirby

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2011, 08:21 AM »
It would certainly do something to the scale, a one to five dilution would be pretty toxic. There are better ways to control scale......

John
 

coh

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2011, 09:53 AM »
I would think so!

I guess a 20% solution, though very toxic, probably would not harm a deciduous tree when dormant/leafless, right? But I don't think you'd want to spray an evergreen (pine, juniper etc) with that concentration...

Edited to add - I wonder exactly what they mean by 20% solution? The lime sulfur I have says it's a 28% concentration in the bottle. So does 20% solution refer to only a very slight dilution (roughly 3:4 I think) of that (my assumption, since the article specified 20% lime sulfur), or a 1:5 dilution of what's in the bottle?

Chris
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 09:56 AM by coh »
 

Chrisl

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Re: Greenhouse Pictures
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 08:11 PM »
Bill, I hope you're reading this thread.  All my trees had a very successful overwintering last yr. after painting it...and Thanks Again for that advice.

It's time to buy new plastic and was wondering should I get black/white film, or a white film that has like 55% opacity?

Thanks for any help
Chris

Your new "greenhouse" looks good, but I don't think that is what you are looking for. What you need is an "overwintering" house, completely different. Your greenhouse has been covered with clear poly to let in the sunlight. That is what you DON'T WANT! Greenhouses have been designed to let the light in so plants will grow. You want to simply keep your trees protected from the wind, a bit from the cold and more importantly THE SUN. You don't want the sun in winter. Yes, even the evergreens, you want DARK.

During the past 30 or so years nurserymen overwintering container grown plants have demanded "overwintering poly" which is white and opaque, which does not let in the sunlight. The sun will raise the temperature of your greenhouse and create the plants to break dormancy too early. NO, unzipping or making slits in the poly will not do. In fact, it may cause the poly to rip, especially in windy locations.

I've been overwintering bonsai with poly for nearly 50 years so have had some experience with this situation. I made the same error decades ago.

Now, I suggest you get some cheap paint, (discontinued colors are fine) and paint the poly on the outside. A light color is best, but some of my students tend to paint their poly to match their homes so it does not stand out too much. It's best to wait for a rain or two because the poly often has an oily film which repels paint. Just paint the poly, it will defect light and your trees will be much better off, especially in February and March when maples will want to leaf out earlier.

Next season, look for "overwintering poly" which is milky white and can be found at a nursery supply company.

Just a bit of unsolicited advice from someone who has been there and wishes someone advised him what not to do. Good luck, let us know in spring how you made out.

Bill