Author Topic: fungicide use as a preventative  (Read 19879 times)

bonsaiTom

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fungicide use as a preventative
« on: September 05, 2011, 10:00 AM »
Warm WET season in the Northeast has me thinking fungicide. Bought some Daconil - already have Neem oil.
Specifically concerning the former, as I have no experience, are there preferred seasons for its use? Recommended frequency? Are there any different concerns regarding Ponderosa vs JBP or JWP? Trident or Japanese maples? Any juniper varieties?

Other brand suggestions?  I know that reading the labels is important - but I'm looking for bonsai focused experience from first hand users of this stuff. I worry about my little trees. That's why I'm here  ;D
 

John Kirby

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 10:07 AM »
I use it monthly in CT (and formerly in AR) on all species that you mention. I haven't had any difficulties with anything to date, many years, I use systemics for sucking and chewing insects (like Merit) and a systemic general purpose fungicide, but the Daconil really works on the pines. I have burned Japanese Maples with Daconil and Malathion, but the malathion was pretty hot (at the high end of the range). One note, I was late getting started this year as we sorted out things after the move, have been playing catchup all summer.

I also strong suggest that you include a sticker/spreader to ensure that exposure is long enough to work.
 

bonsaiTom

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2011, 10:23 AM »
Thanks John - very helpful. Except that I'm not familiar with "sticker/spreader". ?   ???
 

coh

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2011, 10:33 AM »
I've been meaning to ask about daconil for a while now, this post reminded me...I had purchased some from one of the big box stores (Lowes or Home Depot) earlier this year...the already mixed version in a spray bottle. The bottle nozzle has options for "stream" and "spray" but the spray option doesn't work...the daconil mixture seems almost too thick (or the nozzle is poorly designed).

Thinking it might just be the nozzle I bought another spray bottle and put some of the daconil in that...still wouldn't spray well, even after diluting with water. On the other hand, a bottle of copper fungicide sprays with no problem.

Any advice/thoughts/experience? It's tough for me to get good coverage with the daconil, is that just the way the stuff is?

Chris
 

John Kirby

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2011, 11:50 AM »
COH, I don't buy premixed, too expensive, no idea why.

Tom, see http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0052O4O8S/ref=asc_df_B0052O4O8S1693198?smid=A3EC8NZGOQP4RO&tag=dealtmp1-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B0052O4O8S

We buy it by the gallon, use a few table spoons per 4.5 gallon sprayer tank (I use 2-3 to spray the whole menagerie). Not advocating using Amazon, any surfactant will work just fine.

John
 

Chrisl

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2011, 11:55 AM »
John, wouldn't adding a tbsp or two of dish soap in addition to Neem Oil also both act as a surfactants?  

Chris, I also bought the premixed spray bottle and totally agree with you; it doesn't work well.  I also tried a diff. spray bottle with no luck.  So I bought a concentrated bottle that I'm waiting to use after the spray is gone.  It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference. 

I have that Ponderosa Pine that has dead scale from what I can tell, and a mild case of needlecast.  I was told to use 5-6 tbsp Neem Oil and 2 tbsp of dish soap/both per gal.  And then add the fungicide and insecticide to the solution at recommended doses.  Since I'm still trying to kill the spray bottles of the fungicide and insecticide, I'm using the Neem/Soap solution first, then the two sprays.  But adding all 4 elements to the spray seems very convenient...if it works.

Speaking of fungicides, I hear people spray their trees entering dormancy with a lime sulfur spray (some only do decid's and others do both decids and conifers it seems).  But no one talks about the dilution rate.  Anyone know this?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 12:19 PM by Chrisl »
 

coh

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2011, 12:54 PM »
I only bought the pre-mixed so I could test it, I'd also buy the concentrate if I was planning to use it regularly.

Maybe the difference is the sprayer, those small squeeze bottles don't have nearly the "oomph" you can get with a pressurized sprayer. I suppose the next test would be to put the pre-mixed daconil into a pressurized sprayer and see if that works.

Thanks for the thought...

Chris
 

John Kirby

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2011, 03:32 PM »
Use the surfactant, dish soap can foam too much under pressure.
 

Chrisl

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 05:33 PM »
Ah, I see.  Thanks John.  I used a hand sprayer this last time and besides not being great at dispensing the Daconil, both my hands got tired out lol  I have a pressure sprayer so I'll use this next time, though it's a pain to rinse and clean.

Chris, as noted above, those hand spray bottles will really wipe your hands out, esp. if spraying more than one tree.  The pressurized sprayer is very effective; you just have to regularly pump it back up as the pressure goes down dispensing the fluid.

Any ideas on the lime sulfur dilution guys as a winter preventative treatment??
 

gibmeister

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 06:03 PM »
John,

I have Ortho Garden Disease Control (formerly Daconil) and I have Ortho Systemic Insect Killer (formerly Isotox). Are these the items you are recommending to use on a monthly basis as a preventitive procedure? Would this be a good thing to start this year still?  Thanks for any help on this.

Gib
 

coh

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 06:15 PM »
The site "bonsai4me" gives some dilutions for lime sulfur...recommending between 1:25 to 1:50 (mixed with water) for use as a fungicide (spray). However, I've never used it so I can't speak from experience.
 

bonsaiTom

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2011, 08:00 PM »
Hey guys,

Thanks so much. This discussion has been very helpful. Glad I started the thread.

Back to the Daconil I just got in a spray bottle - but have not yet used. Cost was just $4.84 (tax incl.) for a 36 oz. bottle at Lowe's. Now we'll see how well the sprayer works.

My main concern is for pines at the moment.
 

coh

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2011, 10:34 PM »
Please let us know if the sprayer works...it's hard for me to believe that they can keep selling something that performs so poorly. I saw some reviews either on amazon or Lowes web site and a lot of people were complaining about the same thing, so it's been an ongoing problem. Unfortunately I didn't see that until after I bought it...
 

John Kirby

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2011, 02:50 AM »
Gib,
The daconil is fine monthly, if you wish you can alternate with others like copper based fungicide and/or Captan. As with all of these agents, developing a rotation program can be used to prevent resistance and maintain effectiveness. John
 

Owen Reich

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Re: fungicide use as a preventative
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 06:05 AM »
Vegetable oil is a good sticker / spreader that i've always used in the wholesale nursery world.  It's usually about $1-2 for a liter.    As for fungicides, Daconil is a good general spray.  I would reccomend Bayer 3-in-1 Advanced for woody plants if spraying for preventative monthly spray.  The won't sell it in concentrate as I have tried to contact them about it.  Had to do some math and actually used my chemistry book from college : ).  It has Imidacloprid, Taufluvinate, and Tebuconazole.  Here's a link to the breakdown:  http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/d7/d797ccc7-f8f2-4c34-a48e-547a389584be.pdf
I used it for my bonsai once, then bought the chemicals in concentrate form for use at the nursery as we use 300+ gallons at a time.  It works well.  My only concern is the lack of another miticide as there are no miticides to my knowledge that kill multiple enstars (life stages).  Mites multiply really fast and if you only kill the adults (especially with all the spider mite species), they will hatch or mature and reinfest.  I believe I used Floramite the following week.  I sprayed it mostly from late Spring to early Fall when mite activity was peaking for different species.  Blasting your trees with a hose never hurts as long as you're careful. 

Lime sulphur is used quite a bit in the bonsai nurseries in Japan as well as the commercial plant world in America.  It is very popular for protection of plants in the Rosacae family (Apple, Hawthorne, etc) as a dormant spray as well as for fire blight prevention.  We don't spray conifers here or anything for that matter but many shimpaku we purchase in winter have a white residue (which is ugly) and many quince as well.  I've only used it on apples and pears so can't comment on application or rates and someone else already posted on that point. 

The only other thing I would add is don't lean too heavily on one chemical for control (possible resistance issues) and be sure to look into a borer spray like Permethrin for late winter to late spring protection.  With Asian Long-horned beetle, ambrosia beetle, pine bark borer, and now a new one called Camphor Shot Borer, stressed bonsai or corked barked trees are like candy for them.  The really annoying thing is the temperature spikes and drops over the last five years I witnessed in Nashville caused the borers to become active earlier or later than usual.  Not trying to scare everyone ; ).  Subscribing to your local Agricultural Extension's blog or newsletter is generally a good idea as many post borer activity levels and other pests and diseases that haunt your area.