Author Topic: is stationary placement a necessity?  (Read 2145 times)

Judy

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is stationary placement a necessity?
« on: September 26, 2011, 09:29 AM »
Is it necessary for a tree's health to keep it in the same placement always?  I've seen that stressed, that you must not move your tree's around.  I'm talking about within reason of course, not dramatic shifts.  I have parts of my garden that get better light different times of the year, and move my sun loving trees to these spaces as the light shifts, and vice versa with my shade lovers.  And since I live in an area with fewer sunny days than my pines would like, I'll move them around when possible to maximize the light exposure.  I really don't see what the difference is between moving a tree into a patch of sun 20' from a different table, than the cloud cover moving off the sun.
 I've seen it said that this is bad for them, as they've evolved not to move... but I don't think they are that sentient that they know the difference between cloud cover or canopy cover....or a slight move in position.
 

garywood

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2011, 11:22 AM »
Judy, a little off topic but there is a correlation. A relatively young doctor (MD) told me recently that one of his professors started a class with the usual intro speech. The professor said: 50% of everything you learn here is wrong. The problem is that we don't know which 50% it is. Now, he didn't mean that to be literal but a reflection in the evolution of medicine.  ;)  Knowing the difference between correlation and causation is the bane of the bonsai world.
Wood
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rockm

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 02:35 PM »
"I really don't see what the difference is between moving a tree into a patch of sun 20' from a different table, than the cloud cover moving off the sun. "

It is a matter of degrees, really. There is a vast difference from a constant patch of shade to temporary cloud cover, or a dark corner of the yard. Leaves that develop in less sunny areas are not as "sun hardy" as those that develop in sunnier locations and vice versa. If you move a tree from full sun into shade, the leaves that developed getting a lot of sun won't function with less than they started with. That can lead to leaf drop, since the tree doesn't need those leaves anymore.

Same with moving trees from shade into sunnier locations. Leaves that developed in shade will burn more easily than those that develop in sun.

Additionally, water needs vary greatly from sunny to shadier locations.

In moving your trees around, you have to be mindful of all those things.
 

Judy

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2011, 04:28 PM »
Garywood,
and you'll find people on both sides of the 50% who are absolutely convinced of the wrongness of the other 50%... I'm looking to see if anyone has practical experience contrary or positive.

rockm,
I was talking about "within reason"... I'm primarily talking about the different sun angle as the year changes, and moving the trees into the same type of situation that they have been growing in all along, but in a different spot on another bench that now receives  the type of sun that they had been in.  Also speaking about moving the pines that want full sun to different spots during the days when it's possible for me to do so, as the shade from the tree canopy shifts as the sun moves.  I do have a grasp on the basics of sun/vs shade... :)

Could be that this is another rule that is cut in a broad cloth, and has basis in the wide range, but not in the details. 
 

John Kirby

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2011, 06:21 PM »
Judy, based on observation. No. Bonsai trees frequently get moved about the yard. Often just by placing them on turn tables on the benches and turning them a quarter turn every week or two. I have heard the "evolved to" argument many times. As there are are few opportunities for trees to move (without really negative consequences) in nature, I would suggest that this is a non-issue. If there has been no selection pressure (or opportunity?) for locational change in trees, probably not a big issue. We move trees all over the place- in and out of greenhouses, from bench to bench, from location to location, for decades.

Gently moving trees to follow the sun is probably harder on your back than it is on anything else. Now if you want to have the "evolved to" argument, bring up repotting.
 

rockm

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2011, 02:06 PM »
"I was talking about "within reason"... I'm primarily talking about the different sun angle as the year changes, and moving the trees into the same type of situation that they have been growing in all along, but in a different spot on another bench that now receives  the type of sun that they had been in.  Also speaking about moving the pines that want full sun to different spots during the days when it's possible fsay  me to do so, as the shade from the tree canopy shifts as the sun moves.  I do have a grasp on the basics of sun/vs shade"

Judy, I didn't mean to be insulting. This is the web after all and I've run across some who don't understand the difference between sunlight on a window sill inside and sunlight out side.

FWIW, I have placed my larger trees (those that weigh over 100 lbs) on industrial lazy Susan turntables mounted on their monkey pole stands so they may be turned every week to give them even sunlight. This kind of treatment is fine and actually preferred by the tree, as some spots where some of the bigger trees sit in my yard get partially shaded. Rotating the trees can even out foliage strength...
 

Judy

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 04:14 PM »
rockm, I wasn't insulted, didn't you see the smiley??? (perhaps I shoulda used the grin...)  I understand the wide variety of questioners on forums.  Thanks for the replies.  I have been moving my trees around for some years with no ill effects, but then was told in no uncertain terms with exclamation points that trees don't like it.  So I started to second guess.  Good to know that I'm not doing anything terminal.  ;D

John, thanks for your experienced point of view as well.
 

John Kirby

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 09:22 AM »
Judy, I would suggest that this is more of a rule made up by folks who like to make rules.

John
 

garywood

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 09:48 AM »
Judy, I would suggest that this is more of a rule made up by folks who like to make rules.

John
John, I thought that was what I said  ;D
Wood
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John Kirby

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 10:14 AM »
It is, I just took credit for it and repackaged it. ;-}

John
 

Chrisl

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Re: is stationary placement a necessity?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 12:34 PM »
FWIW, I have placed my larger trees (those that weigh over 100 lbs) on industrial lazy Susan turntables mounted on their monkey pole stands so they may be turned every week to give them even sunlight. This kind of treatment is fine and actually preferred by the tree, as some spots where some of the bigger trees sit in my yard get partially shaded. Rotating the trees can even out foliage strength...

What a great idea Rockm!