Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => General Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: King Kong on September 27, 2009, 08:38 AM

Title: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 27, 2009, 08:38 AM
Yippee Ti Yi Yo, move along little doggies. Here you go John.... work this one for me. By the way my Daughter is not married so no hard feelings. lol's

__ 'Me llamo' Gustavo
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: John Kirby on September 27, 2009, 05:32 PM
Based on what I can see, cut it off at six inches and grow a little teepee of foliage on top. Working today, so no time for me to draw. Just cut it off and refer to your standard zig zag trunk extension (that you post on everyone else's trees) ,with sharply down angled "snow bearing" branches, drawing and add to top. Or graft maple on it and grow it as a broom, that would be equally challenging and enlightening.

Cheers,
John
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 27, 2009, 06:28 PM
Gary,

Care to explain what you have going on here?  The picture is far too small to make out much detail.  How about a larger pic, say 800px wide?  If you need help with photos Chris posted a great thread here (http://bonsaistudygroup.com/general-discussion/how-to-post-photos/).
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 27, 2009, 07:39 PM
Based on what I can see, cut it off at six inches and grow a little teepee of foliage on top. Working today, so no time for me to draw. Just cut it off and refer to your standard zig zag trunk extension (that you post on everyone else's trees) ,with sharply down angled "snow bearing" branches, drawing and add to top. Or graft maple on it and grow it as a broom, that would be equally challenging and enlightening.

Cheers,
John

You know it is strange, it is always a fine line that separates genius from so so thinking. The same with a great bonsai. Just that little extra approach with basic skills stresses the importance of development of a masterpiece. Is that what you are trying to say John?
By the way, I have people begging and thanking me for virts on other forums, you know, a chance to see the grace of a first-rate craftsman.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: John Kirby on September 27, 2009, 08:32 PM
Kong,
I find your virts interesting. Just show as a tree where you have done what you propose others do, and have a live bonsai at the end of the next several years. John
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: BSG Moderator on September 27, 2009, 11:40 PM
Gentlemen, please. This sniping has to stop.

bsg Moderator
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 08:16 AM
I know this post will not satisfy all desires, but I intend to continue studying and learning further with you.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 05:41 PM
Here is dog-eared  photo of a zig-zag trunk, teepee top and snow bearing branches. I keep smelling salts near by for for real life 'first see' fainting spells.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 28, 2009, 06:56 PM
Gary,

Another small photo and very little information.  Is this one of yours?  What can you tell us about it and the one you posted previously?  Do you have bigger/better photos to share?
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 07:38 PM
Are you suggesting I am using someone elses material to demonstrate my point MatsuBonsai?
127 KB

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 28, 2009, 07:43 PM
Are you suggesting I am using someone elses material to demonstrate my point MatsuBonsai?
127 KB

__gary

Wasn't suggesting a thing, just looking for some information to accompany the photos.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 07:49 PM
A picture tells a thousand words. I could have sworn someone asked me if it was my plant. By the way, you are welcome for blowing it up in size. It took considerable time.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 28, 2009, 07:55 PM
A picture tells a thousand words. I could have sworn someone asked me if it was my plant. By the way, you are welcome for blowing it up in size. It took considerable time.

__gary

Gary,

Yes, I asked if it were yours, again, in an attempt to get some information to go along with the photo.  Your photo is still quite small, less than half the width that was suggested.  As it is, it's still a small photo with no information to support whatever point you were attempting to make.

If you need help with photo manipulation please ask.  It's not difficult and doesn't take much time at all.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: Steven on September 28, 2009, 08:30 PM
It may be that I am an amateur, since this is an "advanced bonsai discussion", but where is this thread goin? I've been followin it from the start and so far it just isn't gettin anywhere. Or it could just be my ignorant amateurism.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 08:59 PM
It may be that I am an amateur, since this is an "advanced bonsai discussion", but where is this thread going? I've been following it from the start and so far it just isn't gettin anywhere. Or it could just be my ignorant amateurism.

John Kirby wanted to see if I really had any bonsai or if I was full of hot air. I like to draw virts and help people with design solutions. He doesn't think I practice what I preach. That is it. Oh, by the way the bonsai is 39 years old from a cutting if your interested.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: John Kirby on September 28, 2009, 09:43 PM
Nice tree Gary, very nice work. Doesn't look like one of you verts tho. I may have o move to Florida to get the chance to work on tropicals where they thrive.

John
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: John Kirby on September 28, 2009, 09:45 PM
Why are you calling this an advanced thread? Post it under tropicals where it may be appreciated.  John
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 28, 2009, 11:10 PM
Why are you calling this an advanced thread? Post it under tropicals where it may be appreciated.  John

Boy, you just can't please everybody. Picture too small, thread is going no where, who does the tree belong to, posted in wrong topic, not enough information. What happened to simply bonsai?? No more verts for me.

__gary 
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: rockm on September 29, 2009, 08:19 AM
So, I'm lost. Is this a virtual or real? It looks photoshopped to me...but then I'm nearsighted.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 29, 2009, 08:33 AM
Boy, you just can't please everybody. Picture too small, thread is going no where, who does the tree belong to, posted in wrong topic, not enough information. What happened to simply bonsai?? No more verts for me.

__gary 

Gary,

Might I suggest that you would be less frustrated (and others less frustrated with you) if you posted some information with the photos?  I think the response would be more favorable then.  I believe John is correct with his assertion that this isn't an "advanced" thread as there's too little information to be of any use to anyone. 

Take a look at some of the other threads on this board and I think you'll see a lot of great information being shared by a lot of knowledgeable people.


Take care
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 08:56 AM
So, I'm lost. Is this a virtual or real? It looks photoshopped to me...but then I'm nearsighted.

Are you feeling faint rock? I had this tree photographed by two professionals and one amateur for a photo contest. One photographer shoots for SI. So yes, he adds and subtracts color. Do I tell him what to do in his line of work? No. I was very fortunate he took the time to take the picture with his 10 grand camera. Are you getting the picture rock? Now I have other photos from that shoot. Are you asking to see another pic? Do you think pics in other bonsai publications are not touched up? I got some swamp to sell you.
Nearsighted people can see clearly objects that are close.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: rockm on September 29, 2009, 10:47 AM
Gee, no merely asked if the pic was a virt. The condescension is not really necessary. I ask because I can't get any clear idea of what you've done with this tree, how it was developed, or where it came from--or even specifics about species and size.

I have no idea what other bonsai publications do with photos. I didn't ask about them. I asked what you did here. I didn't really get a straight answer, only a response dripping with contempt. I guess that's an answer of a sort.

Sometimes nearsighted people can see what's happening even without their glasses
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 11:08 AM
Nice tree Gary, very nice work. Doesn't look like one of you verts tho. I may have o move to Florida to get the chance to work on tropicals where they thrive.

John

How about now John.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 11:38 AM
Gee, no merely asked if the pic was a virt. The condescension is not really necessary. I ask because I can't get any clear idea of what you've done with this tree, how it was developed, or where it came from--or even specifics about species and size.

I have no idea what other bonsai publications do with photos. I didn't ask about them. I asked what you did here. I didn't really get a straight answer, only a response dripping with contempt. I guess that's an answer of a sort.

Sometimes nearsighted people can see what's happening even without their glasses
[/quot
...................


I do not understand the question is the pic a virt? The plant is a Ficus n planted on a rock when it was the size of a pencil. As the plant rooted and grew, the roots were introduced to grow tubes. There have been three major sacrifice branches removed.  It has been in my nursery from scratch for + or - 39 years where design development changed and tree was reworked.

The day they change the BIG E on the 20-20 chart is the day I am in trouble.



__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 01:04 PM
Now for the advanced part. Roots were singled out and sorted in the first 5 years. Some where gathered together (now they braid) and some were left alone. It was kind of a double project since so much of the tree was exposed. One year I would concentrate on branches and trunk size the next on root layout and size. Inspiration was a black and white pic of a maple ror. I can see that tree like it was yesterday. By the way, I used cut paste on all wounds and still do to this day with great pride.

__gary  
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: rockm on September 29, 2009, 01:26 PM
Again, condescension isn't really necessary. Thanks for filling in the details. I appreciate it.

As for why I asked if the photo was a virtual--there are some artifacts in it that are a bit distracting, and while they may not be signs of photoshopping and are inadvertent, they could lead to the conclusion the image was altered. For instance, there is some blurring of details--or at least the effect of blurring--around the bottom of the pot--the burl base looks out of focus. The foliage appears in high contrast, while the trunk details seem a bit indistinct.

Like I said, it's inadvertent, but distracting nevertheless.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 03:18 PM
Rock, would you please show me a virtual photograph of a bonsai? Yes, the image I showed was altered by the photographer.  No zits, wrinkles or spare tires.   

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 29, 2009, 06:49 PM
Now here is a different camera and photographer. This was 'touched up' too.

__gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: bonsaidad on September 29, 2009, 10:20 PM
Hi Gary
 I really like that tree and now I Live in Florida, Port Orange, I will try to grow one similar. I met Jason S. really a great guy oh and my JBP is still growing.
bonsaidad
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 30, 2009, 05:24 AM
Good to here Bonsaidad. Last and the least, amateur photography.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: MatsuBonsai on September 30, 2009, 08:18 AM
Gary,

So, what about the first tree in this thread?  What can you tell us about it?
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: rockm on September 30, 2009, 08:59 AM
Rock, would you please show me a virtual photograph of a bonsai?

Happy to:
http://www.artofbonsai.org/tutorials/photoshop_pot.php (http://www.artofbonsai.org/tutorials/photoshop_pot.php)
http://www.artofbonsai.org/tutorials/photoshop_virt.php (http://www.artofbonsai.org/tutorials/photoshop_virt.php)
http://blogs.knowledgeofbonsai.org/rob_kempinski/2007/05/01/from-humble-stock-comes-a-mame-ficus/ (http://blogs.knowledgeofbonsai.org/rob_kempinski/2007/05/01/from-humble-stock-comes-a-mame-ficus/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/openeye/2306622908/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/openeye/2306622908/#)
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Bonsai%20Virtuals%20Service.htm (http://www.bonsai4me.com/Bonsai%20Virtuals%20Service.htm)
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATBendingThickBranchesThree.htm (http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATBendingThickBranchesThree.htm)

These are only a few examples and they are marked as "virtuals" done for instructional purposes. Images of altered bonsai have turned up on IBC and other places that weren't. It's not very common for someone to pass off a virtual bonsai as a real creation of their own, but it happens.

Thanks for the "no make-up" picture of this tree. Sometimes those show the tree to better advantage than a touched up photo.
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 30, 2009, 11:54 AM
First of all, if I present a picture of one of my trees it is what it is. I have no reason to nor do I find it amusing to fool people with virtual structural changes so you can rest on being fooled. The leaves are all there, the branches and pot and so on. Now when it comes to color enhancement I am more liberal. If you ever photographed a still object you will understand light plays an important role. True colors often get washed out from reflection. Light source may be real or artificial. Each option will give a different results in an image. Now in a perfect world I want to see true colors so if I have the option to do so I am all for it. If someone feels they are being cheated from seeing the real image I am more than happy to show them an untouched image. Just remember, the camera does not see what our eye perceives. Two totally different systems.

__Gary
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: Rick Moquin on September 30, 2009, 02:54 PM
Nothing but a waste of time.... ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Go back to BT, at least they understood Neanderthal lingo there. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: King Kong on September 30, 2009, 03:47 PM
Sorry to bore you. Why don't you show us one of your trees Moquin so we can understand  and see what a true master can develop?
Title: Re: Advanced bonsai discussion
Post by: BSG Moderator on September 30, 2009, 03:52 PM
Gentlemen, please.  This is a bonsai forum.  If you have complaints we wish that you would share them privately with a moderator or board administrator.  There is always the "report" link for each and every post.

This thread is now closed.