Author Topic: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style  (Read 67843 times)

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2015, 06:07 AM »
Dorian did you tape it with the glue side to the bark?
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2015, 07:26 AM »
Hey Fredman

Nope.  I taped it sticky side outwards and then once I taped the whole branch, I reversed it and taped sticky side down.  I think that the best way to remove it when I eventually do is just to cut carefully with a Stanley knife and peel it off. 

But now I remembered that I have branch benders that I made years ago.  (Joes picture got me thinking about more serious bending) so I decided to do some work on it whilst I took a lunch break (The joys of working from home)

So out came the branch benders and well I did some serious bending.  Slowly but seriously.  I think I will leave it at that till spring and then look again.

Only the crown this weekend.
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2015, 07:29 AM »
Some of the bends

Pic 1 - Bend 1 before
Pic 2 - Bend 1 after
Pic 3 - Bend 2 before
Pic 4 - Bend 2 after
 

Herman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2015, 07:45 AM »
Don't cut it back now...that's some severe bends, leave all the green you can on those branches to help the bends set faster and to keep tha max amount of sapflow in those branches, be patient rather than rush it

this escaped me for some reason when i first replied that you could cut back hard now...

best regards
Herman
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2015, 08:07 AM »
Thanks Herman

Its good to get all this advice because one forgets about certain things.  I would of cut this weekend not thinking that I actually put loads of stress on the tree now with those bends.

 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2015, 10:31 AM »
Just want to include 2 views from the top directly above the main stem area at the bottom

Pic 1 is with the crown as is
Pic 2 is with the crown bent out the way to see the branch bends

Do you think I should look at putting in bends so that the bent stem becomes more centred?

Pic 3
 

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2015, 05:31 PM »
WoW that is some serious bending mate. Very brave and well done. Like I said I don't know much about Literati and/or it rules or even if there is any. I would think its all in your hands and how you see the design. As long as it works in the end..... ;)

If it was mine I would cut the top now. The wires stays on all winter and it will rememorize slowly with the minimum of sap flow. Sap flow as it is now is only growing that top more out of proportion, and creating pressure where the clamps are on the wires. That bends need time now, more than they need lots of sap flow. Cutting it now will give a subtle sap flow that is good for building taper. Cutting the top now will give a head start next spring to start building taper. Leave it now and next spring you will have to cut back severely to get some balance.
Having said that "when in doubt, there is no doubt". It would be best if you could take the tree to a Acacia expert and make it his/her problem  ;D
Not sure if the Sweet thorn  has a second growth flush before winter, but if that is so then it will only accentuate the problem on top.  Either way its time now to learn all you can about containing growth in order to build taper... That is a mouth full believe me. I still tend to let my trees go and it costs me dearly in time and effort..... >:(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 06:05 PM by fredman »
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2015, 12:29 AM »
Thanks Fredman

Yeah, it was a big step but then nothing ventured nothing gained.  With the amount of new shoots coming out of the trunk at the bottom, I decided that is it healthy enough to push the envelope on the bends.

I am going to ask around on some SA bonsai FB pages if anyone knows about this species and see what they come up with.
 

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2015, 12:43 AM »
On the other hand you have nothing to loose but time Dorian. You and your tree is still young and have lots of time to grow together... ;D
 Maybe it is better to be patient and learn all you can about Sweet thorns first before you do the drastic things. Like I said that is what I would've done. There are more ways than one to grow a bonsai mate.... ;)
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2015, 01:11 AM »
Also true Fredman.

I posted on a few sites so lets see if anyone comes back with anything.

I do know that this species has big die back on branches so lets see what the Saffas say.

Will keep you posted.
 

Herman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2015, 03:52 AM »
Hi fredman,

the sap flow needs to be as much as possible to keep the tree from throwing branches, with added benefit of the bends setting faster. Sweet thorns are reputed to throw branches on a whim. If the top becomes too heavy he can cut it off on the trunk just below the first branches and re-grow the whole thing from one branch :)

Autumn is approaching fast and  sapflow is already slowing down, but those branches have buds on them that will draw sap again come spring, would the tree not rather throw doubly weakened branches with 1 or two buds on them in favor of the stronger branches. which might not be what he wants to use in his design, aka cut below 1st branch and regrow top from scratch anyway. Another thing that may happen in event of a hard cutback now is the tree will not be able to store enough resources to support those branches come spring and end up throwing a lot of branches and/or dies back to somewhere below the first bend or just completely dies

sweet thorns are somewhere in-between pioneer trees and trees that can become oldish, they grow fast and do not care to throw branches and use that energy someplace else with better conditions for a branch. they don't mind dying because they make a lot of seed and the seedlings grows fast...

not many people use sweet thorn as bonsai for exactly this reason

kind regards
Herman
 

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2015, 03:56 AM »
Another thing to consider about this trees is the way they grow. The reason why they aren't used as bonsai generally is because they grow those loooong thickish shoots, with very few secondary growth. The younger the tree the more they do that. Even a mature tree has that tendency. Its going to be a very hard one to contain and to get any meaningful ramification into it. The thorns are more like spikes and that to is a problem, but you can always remove that. The most striking attribute of an Acacia is its thorns, so you don't really want to do that.
Yes please keep me posted. Very interested to know how you progress with it. 
 

DorianJF

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2015, 04:01 AM »
Thanks so much for all the information all.

Really appreciate it
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 04:13 AM by DorianJF »
 

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2015, 04:16 AM »
The way I see it Herman is these trees are super vigorous growers as is. The way to get meaningful ramification is to cut it before winter at the right time, so it uses its reserves to push softer growth that can be contained and worked with next spring. If its done right and at the right time that growth will harden before winter and hopefully not throw it come next spring. If it does then so be it. It throws branches unexpected in any case. With this tree one will just have to accept it and work with it. Less sap flow over winter is still the best way to set a bend, but then again with this tree is unpredictable.... :-\
If its left with all that stored reserves it will push uncontrollable growth next spring. You don't want to cut early spring because that will set the tree back and put it into unnecessary shock.
I think with this Acacia its going to be nearly impossible to do any of that with it. I hope I can be proven wrong though... Smiley   
 

fredman

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Re: Acacia Karoo - Sweet Thorn - Bunjin Style
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2015, 04:25 AM »
Think you will find this interesting Dorian....

http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/literati-ponderosa.17968/