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Author Topic: Wintering Princess Persimmon in zone 6b  (Read 7873 times)
Chrisl
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2012, 12:39 AM »

I hear ya John, I've bought 3 collected Ponderosa Pines just this last year.  Once bitten....  Now I want a RMJ, Englewood Spruce, Ezo Spruce...and I still want one of Jim Gremels Cedars as if the yamadori were not expensive enough lol

I had that nursery experience on a container raised Mugo pine, the roots had wrapped around the trunk and there's some constrictions on the trunk.  Not terrible on mine, but I've seen it much worse. 
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tanlu
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2012, 11:10 PM »

Chrisl, I know what you mean about getting addicted to evergreens. I'm dying to get my hands on a nice spruce, particularly Ezo spruce. Actually, what would be even better is collecting my own! Now, that's addicting!

John, Your previous reply hit some good points that I've seen repeated in other threads by experienced bonsai veterans. One post on bonsainut was discussing aging bark in the ground vs in pots. The consensus seemed to be that pots would provide more an environment where trees can develop bark texture that's in scale with their size. And since the trunks aren't enormous as material in the ground the bark would develop relatively faster all over the tree. I just thought it was an interesting topic rarely discussed.

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Chrisl
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2012, 11:40 PM »

You got that right!!  Collecting is something I'd love to do. 
I'll make a trip one day with someone who knows what they
are doing Huh??
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2012, 01:20 AM »

Oh, just remembered something:  on persimmons you don't cut the roots back hard.
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2012, 06:18 AM »

Persimmons don't like to have their roots disturbed much or cut back aggressively.  We usually cut roots that are long in half and use a root pick to increase aeration.  Persimmon is one of the few species that bare-rooting one section (say 1/4) for younger trees.   
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yamins
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« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2012, 04:38 PM »

Owen, (or anyone who knows) -- what about cutting back on branches?   How hard can they be pruned, and when?   How vigorously do they bud back on old wood (> 2 yrs old, I mean)?  On two-year old wood?  On 1-yr old twigs?   Obviously they're not pines, but are they as vigorous as, say, elms?
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 03:33 AM »

Big cuts heal very slowly or never if on old trees.  Buds will pop up all over on young trees; especially if you cut back hard.  I'm talking about Diospyros kaki. Not sure exactly when a branch becomes less vigorous and able to bud on old wood.  I'll find out. I'm not familiar with the habits of our native D. virginiana yet but hope to be in the coming years.  They have great deadwood....
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tanlu
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« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2012, 10:52 AM »

Hi Owen,

It's been unusually hot here in NY (75+), and this morning I discovered my princess persimmon's new spring shoots had WILTED after 4 days of no watering. I was quite surprised since I check the soil for moisture almost everyday and you said in an earlier comment that you heard they "like to fry dry" between watering. I think that myth has been busted!

I drenched it this morning and now it's bounced back.

Is it ok now to prune elongated branches back? Also, I'm dying to know, does a female princess persimmon need the male plant next to it so it can be pollinated to bare fruit?

T
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thomas tynan
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« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2012, 08:43 PM »

I purhased a male and female tree from Julian Adams and although the male has regularly flowered - I have not been able to get the femalle to flower and hence no fruit. This does not concern me to much at this stage as the produciton of fruit can weaken the tree. I keep the male/female within several feet of each other as the two continue to grow and develop. This past weekend - quite warm here in Southen NY State and now an explosion of new growth - like 3" to 4" overnight. My hunch - based on other fruiting trees - is that an abundance of older wood is needed to get the tree to flower. I could be wrong - but let's wait and see what develops. Right now it is all about getting growth and letting the trees develop a bit....Tom
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2012, 10:32 PM »

Sorry to hear your tree wilted.  With so many factors to consider (media, ratio of foliage to roots, etc) I'd trust your gut.  Watering advice via the Internet is a dangerous thing to do so I think I'll avoid any comments to anyone in the future.  If you are talking about pruning shoots shorter, you can cut back to just before a bud or set of buds.  Past that, the branch will likely die.   
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tanlu
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« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2012, 11:58 AM »

Hi Tom,

My Princess Persimmons are also from Julian. The female has put out over 30 flower buds, while the male has none. You make a good point about not letting the tree fruit while still in early stages of development, but I like they as they are now, in fact, and I'm really looking forward to seeing them flower and fruit! I read an article about how only the American native variety needs the male present to fruit, but we'll just have to see what happens this year.

Funny, I don't remember seeing persimmons last time I visited. I would love to stop by again to see the progress of your trees, as you have so many!=)

Owen, Thank you for your comment. I cut a few elongated branches to encourage the buds closer to the main trunk. In Japan do they need the male Princess Persimmon present for the female to fruit? Since they are a specific dwarf variety, I would assume they have unique qualities other than small leaves and small fruit. I've read several articles that say different things. No one seems to really know here in the States.

T
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2012, 10:48 PM »

You do need a male pollinator close by for Princess Persimmon.  There are a ton of different cultivars here and my favorite would be the new perfectly round red one as well as the jet black one.  The leaf size is definitely smaller than the native Mountian Kaki.  Many kaki bonsai are created here using the "root cutting" technique.  Pick an interesting thick root, wire it for a new shape, bury all but the tip, and a new bud will pop at the top.  You then gradually expose more and more of the root below and this becomes the trunk. 

We don't have any Yamagaki (Mountian persimmon) at Kouka-en currently but I hear they are a pain in the ass to care for and keep as a good bonsai.  One of the best princess persimmons I've ever seen was exhibited I believe by Suzuki-San at the Taikan-ten last year.  Probably had 300 fruit it.
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tanlu
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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2012, 05:29 PM »

Thanks Owen for answering my question. I'm having a few issues with the female since it wilted. Although it's wilted and sprung back twice, I think it's been weakened since I spotted a few leaves and small shoots turning black and wilting. I wasn't sure what it was so I sprayed it with Ortho disease killer, making sure it didn't seep into the soil. Have you ever seen this disease on Princess Persimmons you've cared for?

T
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Owen Reich
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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2012, 11:14 PM »

Persimmon are host to a bunch of issues.  Sounds fungal.  I can't read crap here on the chemical labels as it's all complicated kanji.  Someone else may be up on the specific issue.  Ortho has a book called the Ortho Problem Solver I'd reccomend to everyone who has a plant.... They're biased of course for the chemical you use to solve the problem, but the book is excellent.  Just look up the active ingredient as sometimes the Ortho product recommended is discontinued.  A quick Google search may also help.  I'm in the middle of building a pre-quarantine house so gotta go  Smiley
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rockm
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« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2012, 04:23 PM »

I bought what Julian Adams' called his "stud tree" princess persimmon at the PBA show a couple of weeks ago. He was putting it out to pasture, as he had a few more. Nice little tree, even if it doesn't bear fruit. It's about an inch and a half as the nebari and has pretty decent ramification. Not bad for $50...
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