Author Topic: Ramifying quince  (Read 9838 times)

paulpash

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Ramifying quince
« on: January 04, 2013, 05:35 AM »
Hi,

I was hoping someone could walk me through the process of ramifying quince (chaenomeles x specisoa) not chojubai. I have one I recently repotted and need to start getting it into shape.

Can it be defoliated? Timing
How many nodes to grow before trimming back.
Leaves are fairly big - will they shrink with increasing foliage density?

Any other snippets of info for development, eg soil type, location, feeding regimen etc that people may have.

Thanks and a merry new year.
 

0soyoung

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 11:23 AM »
Wait until it has bloomed this spring and prune it hard, to get started. Then it is a matter of continually pruning it back while it is actively growing. You can simply use hedge shears and treat it exactly like a hedge, if you want, and then adjust the canopy surface profile with some detail hand pruning afterward. At any rate, it is simply a matter of clip and grow. IMHO defoliation isn't very effective with quince. But removing some to keep the canopy open is good esthetically, with several varieties/cultivars.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Thanked: 9 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 01:37 PM »
As the tree is waking up I would prune all the branches back to a length that is less than 2/3rds of the distance between the soil line and the first branch. Then let grow out. When majority of branches have grown at least 4, preferably more, and have begun to harden off, prune back to one or two internodes again. Repeat all growing season. You should be able to do it at least twice, maybe 3 times a growing season. Each time leave only one or two buds. You should get branching at every cut, but if you don't, say only a single bud grows, at least you won't have any straight lines. Cut back then grow out then cut back again will also increase movement in all the branches as they develop. Looks like a nice start.
 

Judy

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 04:17 PM »
Very neat little quince Marie, how long has it been in a pot? I like it, but don't know much about this type of quince.  Is it Japanese Quince? 
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 04:42 PM »
Boke. Um, the pruning thing is great, don't use hedge trimmers, be a little more specific than that. The first question is, are you happy with trunk size, taper and movement? The second question is how big do you want the tree to be?

I ask because you want taper and appropriate scale. These trees arealow to get big trunks, but you can let escape growth help.

I have been told by a Japanese friend that the best Chojubai start as root cuttings, not sure with Boke. They can be defoliared, I have only done partial on mine, and if watered and fertilized well can grow like weeds.
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 06:55 PM »
Boke. Um, the pruning thing is great, don't use hedge trimmers, be a little more specific than that. The first question is, are you happy with trunk size, taper and movement? The second question is how big do you want the tree to be?

I ask because you want taper and appropriate scale. These trees arealow to get big trunks, but you can let escape growth help.

I have been told by a Japanese friend that the best Chojubai start as root cuttings, not sure with Boke. They can be defoliared, I have only done partial on mine, and if watered and fertilized well can grow like weeds.

she said not chojubai :)
 

paulpash

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 07:14 PM »
Very neat little quince Marie, how long has it been in a pot? I like it, but don't know much about this type of quince.  Is it Japanese Quince? 

I think it's a variant of Japanese Quince - chaenomeles x speciosa ... just looking at leaf shape but i could be easily wrong. It was very small when i got it and it had no label. It's been with me for over 10 years --- been in pots & the ground when work commitments got too much to water & feed to  keep in good health. They thicken very slowly.
 

paulpash

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 07:19 PM »
Boke. Um, the pruning thing is great, don't use hedge trimmers, be a little more specific than that. The first question is, are you happy with trunk size, taper and movement? The second question is how big do you want the tree to be?

I ask because you want taper and appropriate scale. These trees arealow to get big trunks, but you can let escape growth help.

I have been told by a Japanese friend that the best Chojubai start as root cuttings, not sure with Boke. They can be defoliared, I have only done partial on mine, and if watered and fertilized well can grow like weeds.

Size wise I am happy with the trunk. The right trunk is a bit straight at the start ... i might consider putting a bit of bend in it with a jack as it's at least middle finger thick OR use the first branch to induce movement and taper.

Also in the photo the first branch on the middle trunk looks a little clumsy exiting the main trunk (rising up) & obscuring a branch on the left trunk behind it ... I will need to probably adjust this too by wrapping the branch with insulating tape and bending it down more.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 07:29 PM by marie1uk »
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 10:19 PM »
Nathan not Chojubai, I believe it is Boke, Not japonica but speciosa. But, very close. Chojubai which is what I was interested in learning about is best started from root cuttings, I bet Boke is as well.

If you are happy with the trunk diameters, then don't let the tree grow wild. Let it grow and cut back, grow and cut back. I will be interested to see if you can wire much shape in to hard wood. I usually have the experience of Broke Boke when I wire anything that is woody. Grow and prune, grow and prune. The only way to get taper, but don't let them grow 3-4' tall, they will get too thick.
 

nathanbs

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 370
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2013, 12:48 AM »
I'm so confused I thought you were calling Osoyoung "boke" and referring to the tree as chojubai. Don't mind me as I never heard of Boke. My apologies.
 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 08:17 AM »
Nathan, understand. The problem is we frequently use varietal names on speciosa- Texas Scarlet Quince, Toyo-nishiki, etc. Theya re all the same species with slight varietal cultural differences- so since we in the US call them all "Japanese Flowering Quince" we get two different species under the same name. So Chojubai and Boke at least let us separate them as two different spies. Sorry, I should have been clearer, it is that phone typing thing.
 

Owen Reich

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 01:12 PM »
If a plant is under development wholesale shearing for form often creates thick terminal branches.  I get the idea of being able to see where you stand before detail work, but am no longer shearing trees any more.  Consider cutting back further with concave cutters to a junction further in and developing finer ramification (longer wait but worth it).

On the ones I styled, growth was allowed to extend fully but not 100% harden.  Then, wired using aluminium.  Fine wire and very carefully and loosely applied.  Branch movements made and cut to desired length with wire snips.  By wiring first, the coils are more uniform and hold better.  Watch wire starting about two weeks after application and remove just as it cuts in.  Apply reciept tape or other buffer material to wire if you want to leave it on longer for bigger branches.  Clip and Grow is great for established designed where fine ramification is desired.  Just cut back to 1-3 buds with the final bud in the direction the next shoot is desired.  Leave final flush a bit longer as Fall approaches.  In Osaka we could have 5-7 flushes a year, but mostly basal suckers that were plucked quickly.  One of my favorite cultivars is 'Dragons's Blood'.  Flower buds are obviously bigger as bloom time approaches, so leave a little long on final pruning the year before show time or any time really.

Pretty much all of that applies to the cultivar 'Chojubai' except we generally left the wire on Chojubai branches longer if tree was older due to decreased vigor.  Young ones are exactly the same vigor.

 

Owen Reich

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 888
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 01:18 PM »
Oh, and defoliation is fine.  Just remove foliage on outer silhoutte.  That one probably doesn't need it.  They like lots of water and are on the extreme end of basal dominance.  I'd consider allowing a few more basal shoots to grow out and turn them into thinner shorter trunks.  Perhaps 5-11 when all is said and done.  What do the sides and back look like?
 

paulpash

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2014, 04:11 PM »
An update... and thanks for everyone's input. The root base is bugging me .... bigger pot next year to bury the roots more... wound, root up and get rid of the mound at the base.

][URL=http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/paulpashley/media/2014-03-15143137_zps69196402.jpg.html][/url]
 

BonsaiEngineer1493

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
Re: Ramifying quince
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2014, 08:55 PM »
Impressive Marie