Author Topic: Chojubai Red propagation techniques  (Read 7584 times)

Joshua Hanzman

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Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« on: September 30, 2013, 12:26 PM »
Hello all! I have ordered and will receive four large chojubai red (unstyled in 3 gallon garden center pots) this spring. It is by far my favorite species and I will be working on propagating some for resale, trade, Christmas gifts & whatnot. As such, I wanted to pick some brains here on techniques of layering, cuttings and whatever else to maximize my production... I read in Bonsai Inspirations 2 that ground layering works well for Chaenomeles, but I could not find any info on when to take cuttings, whether to take softwood/hardwood, with a heel or without, whether to take them in spring or summer, early or late, nor anything on Chojubai specifically. I have heard that Chojubai is highly reliant on genetics, and therefore I have a feeling there may be some special techniques to cuttings/seedling/layering them. Contrarily, I have heard that they are easy and propagate well, either way, I would like some advise. Any advise on this will be great, and as incentive I promise my first layering/cutting to the person who gives me the single most effective technique!!!
 

John Kirby

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 07:50 PM »
Root cuttings produce the best Chojubai.
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 12:23 AM »
hey thanks John, I read about the inverted technique for Chojubai you mentioned in a past thread. I will definitely be trying it, how is the success rate on that? Is that the only way the really contorted ones come about? not sure I understand how this works but I guess experience will show me. I'm guessing that the softness of the root cutting makes for contorted trees once they harden, while just plain old cutting are stiff and not very contorted.

However, if I do take soft/hardwood cuttings from chojubai, will it still get that awesome ramification it's famous for, or is that only from root cuttings?

I have no problem putting a couple of these chojubai in a field and having them on a ten year plan, so please help me strategise this, I'm don't mind being methodical, but I would still like to maximize my effectiveness.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 12:25 AM by youngsai »
 

Bonsaiteen

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 07:36 PM »
Where will you be selling/trading?
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 08:06 PM »
Ebay, my local club, and friends I guess, haven't thought about it too much... I have sold things on ebay so I'll figure it out... I just wanna have my choice of tons of chojubai and no1 else is doing it so why not!!

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Neli

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2013, 12:09 PM »
They are very easy. I take hard wood cuttings in spring, and they flower before rooting them. I remove the flowers and then the leafs come. I dont even use rooting hotmone...Just stick them in sieved river sand.

this picture was taken two month ago. Now they are big.

<offsite images removed>
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:35 AM by bsgAdmin »
 

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2013, 01:27 PM »
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Neil-D

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2013, 09:12 PM »
Chojubai and flowering quince are not synonymous.  If you had chojubai, select your cuttings from those with good bark.  The plants in the photos, I think may not be "chojubai", but are in fact quince. Chaenomelese speciousa of some sort.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 12:17 AM »
With other flowering quince cultivars I have had no problem rooting hardwood cuttings in spring, and semi hardwood cuttings in late summer, (for Chicago area, last couple weeks of August). Flowering quince resents hot dry weather. They often drop their leaves in the heat of summer. Sometimes they loose just a few leaves, sometimes they can loose all of them. Don't worry. They have a nice growth spurt once the night temperatures begin to drop at night into the lower 60's. For me this usually begins after August 15 th. Then the quinces put out another flush of growth.

What I have seen of chojubai is not that different from any other quince in requirements, though my experience is relatively limited. It does take time to get the nice fissured bark, it won't develop until the tree has some age, somewhere over 5 years to begin, at a minimum, most likely not until the trunk is approaching 20 or more years old to get well developed bark. So don't panic if your plants don't have the rough bark right away.

All the flowering quinces seem quite cold hardy. I have healed them in the ground in the Chicago area and have had no losses right through -10 F winters here. They were covered with leaves, pots buried in the ground, and in the shade so they were not subjected to freeze-thaw cycling.

Flowering quince is a near ideal species for flowering bonsai. Especially in the north, where summers are cool enough that they keep their leaves all summer.

 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 12:33 AM »
thanks Leo, very good realtime information, the lack of info on chojubai actually surprises me, the species is so beautiful I don't understand why it's not looked at more. The more I learn about it the more I want to learn, my most recent tidbit and one that reinforces my curiosity for the species is something Hagedorn said about Chojubai being highly dependent on genetics. For me, that is doubly curious, as to what degree is it reliant? I'm not sure but I'm thinking maybe this means that it is extremely different from limb to limb, so a cutting from one very well-barked branch can provide much faster barking up, whereas another cutting might never bark up. I remember Hagedorn also lamenting the fact that he has had some Chojubai for over 10 or 15 years (I forget which) which had not barked up yet... Please continue to post anything interesting you notice about the species, it's the little tidbits like this, when added in their totality that make the difference between knowing nothing and being an expert!
 

Neli

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 03:06 AM »
With other flowering quince cultivars I have had no problem rooting hardwood cuttings in spring, and semi hardwood cuttings in late summer, (for Chicago area, last couple weeks of August). Flowering quince resents hot dry weather. They often drop their leaves in the heat of summer. Sometimes they loose just a few leaves, sometimes they can loose all of them. Don't worry. They have a nice growth spurt once the night temperatures begin to drop at night into the lower 60's. For me this usually begins after August 15 th. Then the quinces put out another flush of growth.

What I have seen of chojubai is not that different from any other quince in requirements, though my experience is relatively limited. It does take time to get the nice fissured bark, it won't develop until the tree has some age, somewhere over 5 years to begin, at a minimum, most likely not until the trunk is approaching 20 or more years old to get well developed bark. So don't panic if your plants don't have the rough bark right away.

All the flowering quinces seem quite cold hardy. I have healed them in the ground in the Chicago area and have had no losses right through -10 F winters here. They were covered with leaves, pots buried in the ground, and in the shade so they were not subjected to freeze-thaw cycling.

Flowering quince is a near ideal species for flowering bonsai. Especially in the north, where summers are cool enough that they keep their leaves all summer.


Thank You Leo for the (as usual) very good info. I have several of them...not much to show at the moment..but I plan to grow them. I have not styled them yet...since I want to thicken them.
I have one quince not sure if chojubai but very similar, that I have been growing for over 20 years...nebari must be close to 40 or over cm, but above that are just many thin stems...I dug it out last month, and thought it died , since I had to remove many roots as thick as my arm, but I can now see few shoots.
It was between some large shrubs and totally shaded, but was flowering non stop, and I have been making pickles from the tiny fruits all year round.
As usual I would like to ask how chojubai does in warmer zone 10a-11. I am going to shift them under shade cloth now, as per your advise, since our summer just started.
I have noticed about the bark, and as far as I know different plants can form bark at different age, some earlier than others...and those are selected for the bonsai culture. I think I have both types.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 08:31 AM »
...something Hagedorn said about Chojubai being highly dependent on genetics.
...
I'm not sure but I'm thinking maybe this means that it is extremely different from limb to limb, so a cutting from one very well-barked branch can provide much faster barking up, whereas another cutting might never bark up.

Wouldn't each limb have the same genetics, since that has only to do with the seed (and its fertilization/pollination).
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 08:42 PM »
I really am not sure, but I'm going to do some reading and get back to you...

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Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2013, 12:39 AM »
Yea, your right, I think I might be in luck though as hagedorn says he is only growing chojubai with the right qualities, and telperion told me they are growing chojubai for him!

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Neli

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Re: Chojubai Red propagation techniques
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 09:42 AM »
This are two of my chojubai. They just flowered.Look at the difference in bark though they are almost the  same age:
The tree is not styled at all, and I have just realized that i have taken picture of one only.