Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Fruiting and Flowering Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: tmmason10 on March 20, 2014, 04:13 PM

Title: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on March 20, 2014, 04:13 PM
I haven't started many threads here, so I thought I'd start one for a Chickasaw plum, prunus Angustifolia, that I recovered from Paul Katich about a month ago. It was barefooted when shipped so I potted it up in this plastic training pot. It has an interesting base, and I included a picture of how it grew last year down in Florida. I'm excited to work with this species and hopefully in a couple of years I can get it to a point where I can let it flower. I know Owen picked up a few of these and I wouldn't mind seeing them posted here...
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on March 20, 2014, 09:17 PM
Very nice! I'm really interested species. I will definitely keep myself updated with this tree in the future. Good Luck! My ume arrived today. I will post it up

Nick
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Owen Reich on March 21, 2014, 01:00 AM
The three I received are already opening buds and were potted up at about in pure deciduous grade akadama with a base of medium grain perlite.  I'll post photos when home.  It's America's ume substitute with basically the same flower time and style, deadwood, and similar rough bark.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Yenling83 on March 21, 2014, 01:34 PM
very interesting species, I want to see the flowers. I also hope to see yours-Owen one day.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: plantmanky on March 23, 2014, 02:43 PM
Here is a Chickasaw plum that I've had for a number of years that has just started to flower in the greenhouse.  This is a great american native that should be used for bonsai far more than it is currently.  To me it's very similar to the English sloe (Prunus spinosa) in flower size.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Jim Doiron on March 23, 2014, 07:44 PM
Great tree... and now I have another on my list of "trees I want". 


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Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on March 23, 2014, 08:49 PM
Very cool tree plantmanky, thanks for sharing. How long have you had it?
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: plantmanky on March 24, 2014, 10:56 AM
Thanks all!  Tmmason10, I've had the tree for something like 8 or 9 years.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: BonsaiEngineer1493 on March 27, 2014, 11:21 PM
very nice plantmanky! Looks like Tmmason10 has a lot to look forward to
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on April 21, 2014, 12:18 PM
I thought I had supplied a picture of the whole tree potted in this first post but I guess I didn't. Picked the tree up from he nursery this weekend, it had already extended quite a bit.
Title: Re:
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on April 23, 2014, 09:53 PM
Oh man this is a great species, i really like this, thanks for the introduction!

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Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: plantmanky on April 24, 2014, 08:16 AM
Another Native plum that is good for bonsai is the American plum (Prunus americana).  It's native to the same areas as Chicksaw plum and even a little further North.  Get out into the woods and find some!
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on April 24, 2014, 09:37 PM
These are great and smell Soooo good in bloom.  We had 4 seedlings from a wild one in our last back yard.  I was never able to successfully collect and containerize one, bit always enjoyed the old-rose scent of the blooms.  Good luck with yours Tom...looks happy.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on September 29, 2014, 12:57 PM
Owen et all-

I'm trying to logically think about when to give this tree a hard prune but I'm having trouble. Since this flowers in early spring, would this need to be cutback in winter? Do I cutback now to get rid of any potential flower buds? I'm not sure what to do but any help would be appreciate. The tree looks the same as the prior picture I've let it grow out all year since it was transplanted.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on September 29, 2014, 09:05 PM
I'd wait until after any chance of blooming has passed; they bloom in early March here.  Flower buds will be set and maybe swelling now, on either side of leaf buds.  If the tree has flower buds, I'd definitely wait until after flowering to prune.

When you proceed, be careful to prune so you keep viable buds.  If you're not sure what's viable, prune lightly in March, and heavy (back to first opening leaf bud) when leaf buds start to open.  Have fun, plums are great!
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on September 29, 2014, 10:39 PM
Thanks Brian. I guess I was wondering how to avoid flower buds all together since it's in development. Should I have cut back in mid summer to avoid potential flower buds?
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Brian Van Fleet on September 29, 2014, 11:16 PM
So you're pruning for branch development rather than for flowers at this point.  In that case, pruning throughout the growing season, clip-and-grow, will help encourage back-budding.  And because that stops extension growth, you'll have fewer flower buds, but tighter ramification.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: Owen Reich on September 30, 2014, 12:17 AM
It would be great for Paul to share his insight on the species and technique application. 
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on September 30, 2014, 06:36 AM
So you're pruning for branch development rather than for flowers at this point.  In that case, pruning throughout the growing season, clip-and-grow, will help encourage back-budding.  And because that stops extension growth, you'll have fewer flower buds, but tighter ramification.
Thanks again Brian, that was the answer I was looking for. I was letting it grow out this year but I'll remember to do cutbacks during the growing season next year to get rid of potential flower buds.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on September 30, 2014, 06:47 AM
It would be great for Paul to share his insight on the species and technique application. 

I agree, hopefully Paul chimes in. How have yours done this year Owen?
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on November 16, 2014, 03:46 PM
This is how we will leave things for the year. Gave it a little cutback but left runners in the apex. I think next year I might cut the apex down to the next section denoted by the red line. Possible future canopy as well.  Let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: pjkatich on November 16, 2014, 04:40 PM
The plum is looking well Tom.

You've done a nice job with it this year.

Brian's pruning advise is sound.  If you are not worried about flowers, you can prune any time during the growing season.   Once the branch structure is set, you need to be careful how and when you prune.

This species normally produces flower buds in fascicles from buds of the previous seasons growth.  So, if you cut back hard on this years growth you loose flower buds.  In addition, I have noticed a tendency for the tree to develop flowering spurs on older wood when grown in a container.  These spurs will flower reliably every year so you need to be careful not to remove them.

On established trees, I will prune back hard when the flowers begin to fade in late winter.  I am careful not to remove any of the flower spurs that have developed.  I will wire any branches that need adjusting and will re-pot the tree at that time if needed.

I will let the tree grow unchecked until the end of May.  At that time, I will cut back any new growth that does not fit my design and let the tree grow for the rest of the season in anticipation of enjoying the flowers again next year.

This regime is based on my location and will need to be adjusted for your growing conditions.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Paul
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on November 16, 2014, 08:06 PM
The plum is looking well Tom.

You've done a nice job with it this year.

Brian's pruning advise is sound.  If you are not worried about flowers, you can prune any time during the growing season.   Once the branch structure is set, you need to be careful how and when you prune.

This species normally produces flower buds in fascicles from buds of the previous seasons growth.  So, if you cut back hard on this years growth you loose flower buds.  In addition, I have noticed a tendency for the tree to develop flowering spurs on older wood when grown in a container.  These spurs will flower reliably every year so you need to be careful not to remove them.

On established trees, I will prune back hard when the flowers begin to fade in late winter.  I am careful not to remove any of the flower spurs that have developed.  I will wire any branches that need adjusting and will re-pot the tree at that time if needed.

I will let the tree grow unchecked until the end of May.  At that time, I will cut back any new growth that does not fit my design and let the tree grow for the rest of the season in anticipation of enjoying the flowers again next year.

This regime is based on my location and will need to be adjusted for your growing conditions.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Cheers,
Paul


Awesome, thanks Paul. I'll take the advice seasonally adjusted. The tree never skipped a beat this spring so kudos for you building its roots system the last couple of years.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: pjkatich on November 16, 2014, 08:40 PM


[/quote]

Awesome, thanks Paul. I'll take the advice seasonally adjusted. The tree never skipped a beat this spring so kudos for you building its roots system the last couple of years.
[/quote]


I look forward to seeing the progress of your plum Tom.   

You are off to a great start.

Unfortunately, I did not see this when you first started the thread.  I read some of the other posts and was surprised to read that others have had difficultly containerizing this species.  I have always had very good luck with these trees.  The biggest problem that I encountered was borer infestation.  Treat your Chickasaw plum religiously with a good systemic insecticide.  I like to use one that contains Merit.

When I collect these plums the have no roots.  When I get the collected stumps home, I saw them flat.  I treat them with some rooting hormone and plant them in a small container and leave them alone.  The end result is a root system like the one on your tree.

Keep up the good work.

Regards,
Paul

Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on April 20, 2015, 09:19 AM
This tree apparently flowered this spring while it was at NEBGS. I missed it, but pleased at the foliage it has added thus far. This species seems well suited for bonsai, as the leaves have reduced quite a bit from last year. It's even growing a mini fungus on its trunk!
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: J.Kent on April 21, 2015, 08:25 AM
That's not a fungus it is moss and you want it OFF the trunk as it is likely to damage the nice bark on the trunk.  Moss is OK on the soil, not OK on the tree.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on April 21, 2015, 09:15 AM
I agree about the bit of moss, but this is the fungus I was mentioning.
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: John Romano on April 21, 2015, 08:59 PM
looking good Tom!
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: tmmason10 on April 21, 2015, 09:36 PM
looking good Tom!

Thanks John!
Title: Re: Chickasaw Plum
Post by: pjkatich on April 26, 2015, 02:25 PM
Hi Tom,

Looking good.

It would seem that the tree has handled the transition very well.

I'm glad to hear that the plum flowered for you.  To bad you missed it.

Don't forget to treat the tree for borers.

Regards,
Paul