Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Deciduous Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: johng on June 18, 2009, 05:44 PM

Title: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: johng on June 18, 2009, 05:44 PM
Here is an Elm forest that I have been working on for about a year and a half now...I purchased it at one of Bill's auctions.  He told me it was about 20 years old.  What do you think?

Elm Forest (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_nKdSYyAME#ws-lq-lq2-hq-vhq-hd)

Thanks,
John
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: bwaynef on June 19, 2009, 10:39 AM
An irrelevance first:  Is this different than a Yatsubusa Chinese Elm?

I like the overall shape of this tree.  The canopy looks very natural.  On the left side of the planting there are two trees that are growing at the same angle, with about the same diameter, and the fact that they are directly adjacent (when looking from the front) tends to look somewhat too uniform for the rest of the planting.  Perhaps a little more separation between the two would benefit the planting.  (Without really considering the implications, that separation could be achieved by moving the 2nd tree from left forward just a little more.)

This isn't so much a suggestion as it is a sincere question:  Would the planting be improved by having additional branching coming in front of the trunk of the tree planted on the far right?  There seems to be branching enough to do it coming from the tree 4th tree from left.
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: bonsaikc on June 19, 2009, 02:09 PM
John,
I, too, appreciate the naturalness of this tree. I don't think the two trunks are too uniform at all, the entire thing has an "unstudied" appearance to it.

Chris
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: johng on June 19, 2009, 04:55 PM
An irrelevance first:  Is this different than a Yatsubusa Chinese Elm?  Yes it is the same..I just screwed up the name.

I like the overall shape of this tree.  The canopy looks very natural.  On the left side of the planting there are two trees that are growing at the same angle, with about the same diameter, and the fact that they are directly adjacent (when looking from the front) tends to look somewhat too uniform for the rest of the planting.  Perhaps a little more separation between the two would benefit the planting.  (Without really considering the implications, that separation could be achieved by moving the 2nd tree from left forward just a little more.)  Separating at the root level would be tough and is more risk that I am probably willing to take..However it may be that the angles can be adjusted with a separator or two.

This isn't so much a suggestion as it is a sincere question:  Would the planting be improved by having additional branching coming in front of the trunk of the tree planted on the far right?  There seems to be branching enough to do it coming from the tree 4th tree from left. 

Thank you Wayne for the thoughtful reply.  One thing I failed to mention is that this video was shot at the time the buds were breaking...the composition in full leaf is much fuller...even after a good pruning:)

Thanks again,
John
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: johng on June 19, 2009, 05:00 PM
John,
I, too, appreciate the naturalness of this tree. I don't think the two trunks are too uniform at all, the entire thing has an "unstudied" appearance to it.

Chris
Thanks Chris...perhaps unstudied is a good way to put it...I am certainly trying to avoid flat foliage pads...but still keep the foliage light and not so dense that the inside is dense and shaded. 

Although it doesn't show that well in the video, I think the root base is perhaps this planting's best feature.  I am still in the process of exposing the roots...there was very little rootage showing when I bought this.

Thanks again for your input!
John
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: bonsaikc on June 19, 2009, 05:44 PM
I was going to suggest that the root base looks fascinating. I'd love to see some higher resolution pics of it.

Chris
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: akeppler on June 20, 2009, 01:18 AM
As the video opens and the two dimensional view is seen it looks very flat. Then the turntable starts to turn and this sideways envelope of foliage and depth unfolds...


then just as I am savoring the view it stops and goes the other way.

Curses! I wanted that thing to go all the way around.

OK John give us a do-over
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: clrosner on June 20, 2009, 07:24 PM
JohnG:
I really liked the video, but I am with Al on a do-over going all the way around. I love the tree in the back giving the grouping  excellent aerial perspective.

Carl L Rosner
Title: Re: Yatsubusa Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: johng on June 21, 2009, 08:31 PM
Ok guys... I will redo the video but its probably going to have to wait a week or so as I will be out of town next week.  I probably should not have even used that video as that was really just a test to see quality and difficulty of using a Mino Hd flip video camera.  The camera is amazingly easy to use...if using a pc you can upload directly to Youtube from the provided software. 
anyhow...I will redo:)
John
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Dano on June 22, 2009, 09:17 PM
John,

You mentioned that you purchased at one of Bill's auctions? If you don't mind my asking, who is Bill and what did you pay for the forest? I really like the video's.

Dano  ;D
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: johng on June 22, 2009, 10:37 PM
Hey Dan,  I bought this at the auction for Bill Valavanis' Shohin Symposium in 2007.  I paid a pretty penny for it!!  Let's just it was more than that proverbial $300 tree:)
John
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Rick Moquin on June 23, 2009, 06:39 AM
I love the natural feeling the "composition" displays. The setting on top the knoll and nebari look extremely natural. If I was to change but one thing, it would be the pot. The size is about right but I would prefer a pot with flat sides similar to a suiban for this plantation. Another alternative would be a slab, but we see far too many plantations on slabs.

PS: IMHO it is extremely rude to ask what one pays for their trees.
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Dano on June 24, 2009, 07:54 PM
Rick,

Please don't be offended by my asking a question. Many of us purchase trees from different friends and teachers. My asking only helped me establish a fair market value. I mean no offense in asking John the price and he obviously took no offense in my asking. Lets keep things light on this forum. Thanks for all you do for bonsai and I really enjoy your web site with the progressions.

Dan
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Rick Moquin on June 24, 2009, 08:45 PM
Dan,

No apologies necessary. We will need to see where this forum goes as it forges ahead. I always try to keep it light, over the years I have witnessed on many occasions that although nothing is said, folks do not take kindly to the question. Perhaps the question should be discussed privately, therefore no one is put on a spot so to speak.

I am glad you are enjoying my work and will endeavour to keep up with it. It is a place where I can document the transformations over the years instead of being buried amongst the clutter that forums have become of late.

Rick,
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Bonsai Study Group Admin on June 25, 2009, 11:29 AM
As a reminder

Lets focus on the discussion of bonsai.  Several types of posts happen on forums that tend to derail discussion.  Congratulatory posts being the primary culprit, though there are other ways to sidetrack a discussion.  This forum's purpose is to discuss bonsai, and we'd like avoid as much of the periphery that sometimes crops up.  Right now we've chosen not to remove posts of this sort, but ask that members self-govern their posts. 

In summary, try to have in your post a question, suggestion, or realization.  If you like a tree, its ok to say so, but why not spend the time to explain what it is that really draws you to the planting?  Its not our intent to stifle community, but rather to foster high quality posts that can serve as a learning environment.  I think we can all make this a pillar of the online bonsai community.
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Rick Moquin on June 25, 2009, 02:14 PM
I am sorry to have hijacked the thread, and if it is not portrayed as a hijack, then although I believe in moderation I believe admin should take a chill pill as well. Germany went down in  45.

These are extremely terse words, but then again, let's define moderation. I was invited here, I did not stumble upon the site. But as I mentioned this site will need to prove the worthiness of my participation. FULL STOP.

This is harsh I know it, I don't pussy foot around issues. Do You!!
Title: Re: Yatsubishu Chinese Elm Forest
Post by: Bonsai Study Group Admin on June 25, 2009, 02:26 PM
Rick,

The comments left by the BSG Admin were not necessarily directed at you.  No moderating was done except for a gentle reminder of the topic of bonsai and self-governing of posts.  Please do not take offense.

While the thread was not hijacked and not especially off topic, it seems that it is now.  For that, we will lock this thread and move on.  We hope that johng will post another thread with the full 360 degrees as his schedule allows.  Rick, we look forward to your continued participation in the Bonsai Study Group.