Author Topic: Stewartia Pseudocamellia  (Read 6909 times)

bwaynef

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 10:09 AM »
I bet once you get this one into a shallow container and do some appropriate/aggressive root work, the nebari will begin to form taper for you.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 05:50 PM »
Twin trunks are good...yours splits a little high, but I think still quite workable.

I have 2 Stewartia monadelpha in the ground, that came as bare-root or 2 3/4" pots from Bill about 3 years ago.  They're about 7' tall now, and have thumb-thick trunks.  Slow to fatten, but exciting trees.  Anyone know how they do from cuttings?
 

Judy

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 09:05 PM »
There is a big shoot at the base of the current secondary trunk.  I'm going to keep growing it, and may just cut the current smaller trunk off and develop a new secondary from that shoot.  I think that the tree would really miss the lower foliage, as the branching that appears behind the single trunk angle all comes from that trunk, and it would be fairly bare until the top of the trunk at that point.

I can't imagine that cuttings wouldn't strike, I swear, this thing grows at a rate of 6" a week at least...I had to take the wire off today from 2 weeks ago.  And all of the bends were perfectly set already.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2014, 05:26 AM »
http://horticulture.oregonstate.edu/system/files/onn080117.pdf

Seems they can propagate well from softwood cuttings.
 

Judy

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2014, 10:52 AM »
Hoping that I can get some opinions about this secondary trunk today, as I may chop it in favor of the shoot that is just below and slightly behind the current second trunk.  What do you think, is it going to read too far around the back?  I think that as fast as this grows, I can get it caught up to the size of the current secondary trunk in a few years, but with far better movement off the main trunk.  
But if it's too far round the corner, then it will not be worth doing. It's really only a bit over, but that can make a huge difference sometimes.
Thoughts???

As far as doing away with the secondary altogether, I've been looking at that, and there really isn't any low foliage on the tree without it.  Not that I couldn't graft, or get something to pop, but currently there isn't anything else low.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 10:54 AM by Judy »
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2014, 05:45 PM »
Jim Doyle had one of these for sale yesterday that looked very similar to yours.  It was tempting, but had many of the same challenges of this one. (Photo 1)

I don't feel like I have a sense for the best front.  If the best front puts the smaller trunk toward the back, I'd be very inclined to remove it entirely and let everything grow this year and then thread graft new branches into the lower portion if the main trunk. (Photo 2)

If the best front puts the second trunk to either side, I'd be tempted to thread graft a new leader into the second trunk and wire it out so it has a better angle of emergence. (Photo 3)

Make sense?
 

Judy

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2014, 09:11 PM »
Yes, thanks. I think I will pursue the second option, and try for a better positioning of the second trunk.  The base is just too much better from what I'm working as the front to give it up. 
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2014, 08:45 PM »
If you expose roots of any size to open air, they will thicken faster.  Everyone should have one of these....  Brian, good to see you at the show.  Please share photos if you took any.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2014, 10:44 PM »
If you expose roots of any size to open air, they will thicken faster.  Everyone should have one of these....  Brian, good to see you at the show.  Please share photos if you took any.
Good to see you as well.  Great job with the show, from really every aspect.

I took photos of individual trees, but got too busy gabbing to get much else.  Ill load 'em up over the next few posts, but they look pretty similar to John's.
 

Sorce

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2014, 05:42 AM »
If you expose roots of any size to open air, they will thicken faster.  Everyone should have one of these....  Brian, good to see you at the show.  Please share photos if you took any.

Owen,

 I have read keeping them covered gets them thicker faster. ?

I trust you more than most. What is the reasoning behind this? Of any size and species? Or just Stewartia?

Hope you are at the airport soon! I await the reply!

Sorce
 

Judy

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2014, 01:35 PM »
If you expose roots of any size to open air, they will thicken faster.  Everyone should have one of these.... 


I agree that these are trees more people should try.   I put some light moss on trees, as I'm away from them for a few weeks.  Normally I keep my surfaces clean, but have noticed some amazing growth on certain trees after mossing this year. Could be that I need to step up the watering to keep the top soil moist, or use sphagnum. 

I've heard both things as well, that roots swell faster under soil, and out in the air.  Could it be species specific? Or is one a myth?

If the moderator could move this thread to deciduous discussion, I'd be much obliged, I don't know how I wound up placing this topic here!
 

0soyoung

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2014, 02:49 PM »
If you expose roots of any size to open air, they will thicken faster.  Everyone should have one of these.... 


I've heard both things as well, that roots swell faster under soil, and out in the air.  Could it be species specific? Or is one a myth?


I'm not buying either story (but, I suppose, it maybe a personal problem  ::)).

I do know, however, that one gets thick/bulky roots if the roots are in a dense/compacted soil. This is one of the things that 'growing in the ground' will do, but it can also be achieved in a pot full of landscape 'topsoil'. It fits with a simple idea that Rob (October) would love: To get thick roots, make your roots push hard.

Thick roots don't happen (or develop VERY SLOWLY) in loose/non-compacting mediums.

Hence, I speculate that maybe the development of thick roots in bonsai is a side effect of the breakdown of the magical/sacred acadama medium -  it does break down to become very dense/compacted and would force roots to work hard.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2014, 06:43 PM »
I know that Stewartia monadelpha roots that have been exposed to light and air thicken faster because I've worked for multiple years on about 5 of the best ones in Japan.  My teacher's father created them over 40 years and sold many of them including one to S-Cube two years ago.  I was personally responsible for improving the root systems of the Stewartia where I apprenticed. 

Covering them (surface roots) with moist sphagnum, even a thin layer, slows their swelling.  My blog post below has more information about the species for those who are interested.  So, I'm saying "I am right" because that is what I was taught and what I've observed.  There are often multiple techniques to achieve the same goals for bonsai training.




http://bonsaiunearthed.com/fujikawa-kouka-en/stewartia-monadelpha/
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2014, 06:53 PM »
The roots of the Stewartia I helped with were always in a slightly deeper than normal bonsai container (for the height and width of the tree) but not uncommon for highly refined Stewartia monadelpha bonsai.  Media used has always been Aoki Blend which has a high %age of low fired Akadama.  It doesn't get super compacted as we repot this species fairly often (like every two years).  The thick basal flares (like the one in the blog header of my post) are due to a number of techniques applied which I will not go into here.

Akadama is not sacred.  I'd be happy to use something else if I got the same results I've personally seen in short periods of time when changed from other media mixes to ones with Akadama incorporated.  Going to trial the Calidama on some trees next year.  It is not fair to judge some results coming out of California against  the conditions elsewhere for media selection as out there, it's basically "nice" for much of the year. 
 

Judy

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Re: Stewartia Pseudocamellia
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2014, 08:12 PM »
Thanks for that valuable nugget Owen,  great blog post, I've read this one more than once! It must be something to see those great stewartias in person, let alone have a hand in creating them.
I wonder if its too late to try a thread graft this year?