Author Topic: seuji pics  (Read 4833 times)

Joshua Hanzman

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seuji pics
« on: September 29, 2013, 07:23 PM »
collected seiju, please let me know how i can make this tree into a bonsai. Also, let me know whether you think I should carve the uro, or allow it to heal over...
 

augustine

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2013, 09:15 AM »
Is this a seiju elm, Ulmus parvifolia 'Seiju'? If so, this species would not be found "in the wild" unless you collected from a planted landscape tree. Also, it is a cultivar and any seedlings would not be seiju but could still be a nice tree. True cultivars come from asexual propagation, cuttings, grafting or tissue culture. I have seen regular Ulmus parvifolia grow as a result of seeds from a landscape trees. I've got them on my work campus and the seedlings grew from two large landscape trees.

However, I cannot see your pictures they are too small. You could have Siberian elm which is invasive in this area.

Best regards,

Augustine
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2013, 11:45 AM »
Actually, you could be completely right. A little history on it and why I think it's seiju, A friend of mine who owns a small kinda private bonsai nursery (Ichiban Bonsai in howell nj) used to collect from a field owned by a friend, and this one was collected from the same place as another she gave me that was id'ed by a bonsai professional as seiju. But either way it is Ulmus, I guess I'm not really sure what cultivar it is. I dont now whats going on with the pictures, I will try to find the average size of the pictures here and resize them accordingly. I am using Picasa, so anyone with some tips on how to do it please let me know.
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2013, 11:50 AM »
This is a test for me to see if my resizing is working properly, please let me know if this is an ok size with you all...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 11:54 AM by youngsai »
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2013, 11:56 AM »
That seemed to work, if I click it, it enlarges right here on the forum, let me know if anyone has issues with pictures now please...
 

Herman

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 03:17 PM »
Hello youngsai

What do you like about the tree? More often than not bonsai is about personal taste, if we talk about feeling and style. I guess you arent asking the right questions? Are you after techniques to reach your goal or do you need an idea to stir your own creativity?

also that is a very big wound and would require the tree to put out some serious growth for it to close up, so if you want a bigger trunk that would be the way to go. To get there slip it into a bigger training container and feed it high nitrogen fertiliser. The tree is a bit tall to my taste so a bigger tree will solve that. Or you can trunk chop it below that wound and train up a new shoot as continuation of the trunk.  This will give the trunk taper and movement, for a shorter tree. It's a blank canvas dude, play with it...thats the only way to learn.

Ps dont do any of this work now...wait for spring

Herman
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: seuji pics
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 09:56 PM »
That's a good question Herman, I don't really like anything about this tree besides my love of elms, which means I love the foliage and the bark. My goal with this tree is a broom as I have none others and I have plenty in other styles. The nebari is lacking it's really only strong on two sides which confines me to either this front or flip side. The taper is far too gradual and contrived. So I guess I do arrive at a trunk chop, I guess I was hoping for some creative way to salvage the structure I already have, like citricication to increase taper and a uro carve to balance the visual weight to help the taper. Frankly I can say those words but it is still theoretical because I've never done something like that on an elm...

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Herman

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 12:48 AM »
I still think growing this tree bigger could solve a lot for you and also give you more options.  You could always later trunk chop it to get the taper you want and regrow the primary branches and maybe ground layer it to improve the nebari. A friend of mine has a very convenient ground layering technique. Will see if I can get permission to post it here

Herman
 

augustine

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2013, 09:06 AM »
youngsai,

The only reason I brought it up is that some newer folks will collect native trees and misidentify due to appearance. Regardless of type you have a good species for bonsai.

Take good care of it and let it become healthy. In case of an elm two years would be good and maybe repot in spring of 2015. Next growing season feed, water and let it grow strong.

You may have to perform drastic pruning (AKA "chopping the trunk") lower on the trunk (no sooner than 2015) to eliminate the reverse taper at the point where the existing branches join the trunk. Reverse taper is the bump that doesn't match the natural taper of the trunk.

In the meantime continue to study up and learn. Join a bonsai club. Also, continue to collect, you're doing a great job.

Keep in mind that a newly collected tree is very stressed and needs to be treated with care.

Best,
Augustine
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: seuji pics
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2013, 09:46 AM »
Thanx both of you,
Augustine I had thought I mentioned I attend deepcut bonsai club. Also, at deepcut I had a workshop with Peter Warren and he called it seiju, hence why I call it the same. But I would imagine you are correct here, as unless it was a cutting it literally could not be called sheikh, am I understanding cultivars correctly?

Herman, I am going to take your advise, the nebari is 80% turtlebacked, so I'm thinking big ole pot, with a tile underneath, half bonsai soil half milled peat to minimize the amount I have to water.

You said 2 years? Awesome, that's far quicker than I thought, I do not mind trunk chopping, however as I am preparing for a shohin display and would like it slightly shorter.

So my final strategy is
1) big pot with a tile at the bottom after arranging roots/exposing cadmium and placing rooting hormone where I want nebari growth and cutting back roots where nebari is fine.
2)  the year after I will be trunk chopping to the point of chosen beginning of taper.

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Sorce

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 08:15 AM »
Youngsai,

     Just want to point out, and would love to hear others opinions, about rooting hormone.....

I have a Slippery Elm , with almost perfect nebari. See pic. Right in back, there was no root. So I made a little wound, dusted it with powder, and left it mossed all summer.

Now, see 2nd pic, I put the white rock where I wounded dusted and wanted the root, this is just healing now, but see, a root grew where there was only moss, no powder.

Point being, every ulmus I've rooted by any method, has only been successful WITHOUT powder.

My conclusion so far. Trees like elms, ficus, likely maples, that root readily, just overdose with hormone.

I vote for skip the.hormone.        good luck, hope to see your elm again after
 

Sorce

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2013, 08:17 AM »
Oops here's the first pic
 

augustine

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 09:06 AM »
Young,

You really don't need to fool with the file. Use a container that is relatively shallow with some room for growth. Not too large, though.

Two years is not a set formula - depends on health and vigor of your tree. Seiju or schmeiju, a good tree by any name. Looks like your off to a good start. Seek educated opinions from your club members.

Best
 

Joshua Hanzman

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Re: Re: seuji pics
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2013, 09:12 AM »
Hmm that's really interesting, thanks for the tidbit! I know trees such as larch grow from sphagnum providing something to them, I think I learned that from Lenz's book, maybe it's something like that? I have had success using rooting hormone on elms, but that is when taking cuttings. I use a combo of cloning and rooting hormones and ordered rizzae. This works well, so I was thinking to try that. Is it definitely possible to od on rooting hormones?

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Sorce

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Re: seuji pics
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2013, 09:07 PM »
Oh, I'm no scientist. I just guess that those have to be a little higher in the hormone naturally, so they don't know how to react when dosed. ???

I just can't get over a trees will to survive. Or a peice of a tree for that matter. I saw a cut log by the river, rooted and throwing shoots. The CONDITIONS that had to be maintained to make it possible is what was amazing. Could have flooded, rotted, beavers, insects, humans,  drought, etc. But it didn't, so that tree rooted. 

So, aftercare, aftercare, aftercare!  ;D

It's all about the conditions we maintain to allow the tree to root.

I think rooting hormone is like a reverse placebo. It wastes a lot of time cuz people use it and forget about conditions, then cuttings die, or rot and spread fungus.  :(

Unless it is a placebo, and your plants can respond to your feelings. But I love my trees, and this doesn't work! ;)