Author Topic: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock  (Read 14655 times)

Owen Reich

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Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« on: June 19, 2013, 12:17 AM »
After visiting Bill Valavnis and enjoying his 50 year anniversary and Collquium, I decided to start a fairly long-term project (hopefully not 50 year)  ;D.  Starting this early in a plant's development gives you complete creative control.

Decided to try a big water jug. 

Bored holes in bottom.

Lots of holes....

Used lace stone from Arizona.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 12:29 AM »
Porcelain berry rooted cutting in 4" pot.

Wired vine for long-term form.

Roots a tangled mess but some fleshy ones already formed.

Untangled entire root system.  I've found 1 or 3 gallon vines easiest to use.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 12:46 AM »
Used pre-made muck from Bonsai Learning Center.

Laid out fleshy and a few thin roots against rock in good places.

Applied muck so roots are held close to rock.  Didn't use felt this time.

Poured a whole lot of Primera One (similar to Turface) in while I held the muck against rock.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 10:36 AM »
Owen, was the larger container only used b/c you had a lg. rock?
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 12:00 PM »
Kind of.  This rock is pretty tall but also,  I want to see what happens without the felt and also leaving a small plant in a large container for a really long time.  I'll have to avoid over-watering in the short-term.  If this works better (thicker roots hugging rock quickly), I'll know.  Going to make a few more with the same size starting plant and a regular milk jug to have something to compare.  Not using the felt and a larger container and changing the media is a few new variables.  But, bonsai creation has a million variables.  Worst case, I get a really big porcelain berry  ;D.
 

Yenling83

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2013, 11:58 AM »
Nice man, hope it works out well.  I think it's important that we all start long term projects like this, so we can have some really nice trees in the U.S. in the future. 

i'm curious what type of soil will you be using in the U.S. for your Bonsai in smaller pots?
 

Chrisl

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2013, 01:29 PM »
Kind of.  This rock is pretty tall but also,  I want to see what happens without the felt and also leaving a small plant in a large container for a really long time.  I'll have to avoid over-watering in the short-term.  If this works better (thicker roots hugging rock quickly), I'll know.  Going to make a few more with the same size starting plant and a regular milk jug to have something to compare.  Not using the felt and a larger container and changing the media is a few new variables.  But, bonsai creation has a million variables.  Worst case, I get a really big porcelain berry  ;D.

Excellent experiment Owen!  Thanks for the explanation.

Chris
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 02:25 PM »
Nice man, hope it works out well.  I think it's important that we all start long term projects like this, so we can have some really nice trees in the U.S. in the future. 

i'm curious what type of soil will you be using in the U.S. for your Bonsai in smaller pots?

I use Aoki Blend Akadama for bonsai well into refinement or maintenance.  A mix of lava, pumice, Turface, and soft Akadama for smaller trees in development.   Primera One (basically Turface) with Grower Grade milled peat moss at different ratios for all the long-term stuff. 

Yes, long-term projects are important as rushed development = regret when you're more skilled and your bonsai have crappy branching or rootage.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 11:49 PM »
A quick update on the project.  All but three branches died over the winter, so for 2014, it was basically a start-over for the top.  Not necessarily a horrible thing.  Roots appearing on sides of container and the plant is healthy / full of fruit.  Earlier this year, I removed 1" of media from top and cut away some of the water jug.  Will do the same thing each spring until I can't stand to wait any longer, then repot into deep container with good media.  Likely free draining mix with low fired Akadama, pumice, and lava.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 11:55 PM »
From the photos, I apparently removed about 3" of media. 
 

augustine

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 09:16 AM »
Owen,

I have 2 of the same from Bill V which I've been growing for three years. I've also found that the season's new branches die off during the winter. This year I did not do any trimming and it looks as if more new branches have lignified, so I'm curious to see if there will be less die off.

I read somewhere that if the early berries were not removed the later fruit would not have good color (and remain a dirty off white color). I found this to be absolutely true.

Best regards,

Ray
 

tmmason10

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2014, 11:44 AM »
Cool project Owen. I have been meaning to try a root over rock mayb I'll get to it next spring.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2014, 12:04 PM »
A couple root over rock discussions.  I just have one trident/rock in the ground yr 3.  The original muck and cotton sheeting ties (from a workshop at Chic. Gardens).  Pulled this spring, root pruned and replanted.

Nothing special.  But, and this is why I wanted to post something, I had what I thought was a great idea (what a setup! lol)  You all know about the expanding foam insulation?  They make one waterproof for ponds.  One could wrap the seedling around the rock with muck/ties.  Put it in a small container and spray the foam around it all.  Then plant it in a container like Owen did above.  The roots will grow thru the foam, and the expanded foam will keep those roots on the rock exceptionally well.

Just a thought...
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2015, 12:04 PM »
Another update; nothing amazing but it's nice to keep track.  Removed another few inches of plastic from the container and exposed more roots.  A few of the secured roots died back and a secondary root grew towards the container edges.  These were shortened and reapplied to the rock.

One floating root in the center of the rock will be reattached when I have time. 

Photos of the current front:
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Porcelain Berry Root Over Rock
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2015, 12:11 PM »
For the record, not using felt to bind roots to the rock is likely not a good idea.  Also, use of Turface-like products (in this case Primera One) also not ideal.  The plant is happy, and it was my hope to find a use for this stuff I no longer use on my better trees.  It is keeping the bottom of the container well hydrated and the middle and top areas unreliably hydrated in pockets.

The back and right side: