Author Topic: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?  (Read 8745 times)

ceasharp

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Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« on: March 10, 2013, 04:54 AM »
I was at a local nursery yesterday picking up a ton of foliage for a landscaping project I am doing. In their "japanese garden" section I noticed these beautiful 3 - 4 ' Japanese Maple and Dissectum trees that they had available. First question is, would these make good bonsai's? Their sizes are typical of Omono. Second question is, the place in my garden I would like to place them would be receiving fullshine around 12:30 pm to 1:30 pm (depending on season) I live in Southern California and our summers get hot and I know that the Japanese Maples do not like the hot sun, would this be a suitable place for these magnificant specimens? ???
 

0soyoung

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 01:56 PM »
Most dissectums do well in full sun as well as partial shade. In general, wind (15 mph+) is your worst enemy with JMs.
 

ceasharp

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2013, 08:55 PM »
Thank you, the spot I had in mind, literally gets all most no winds what so ever. The fastest wind it will see is if one of us walks by too fast. I went ahead and purchased both the Japanese Maple and the Dissectum. I do know that they are both probably root bound, and the buds have formed, would it be wise to get them to another pot at this time?
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 11:34 AM »
I'd post some photos from multiple sides of the maples.  Acer palmatum with deeply dissected lobes are not super-common as bonsai, but possible.  Generally the graft unions are not so beautiful and the bulge takes away from the soft, curvy lines of the trees.  I have a few in training and have seen about 10 in Japan as bonsai.  As is the case with my cut-leaf form maples, heavy branch removal is necessary to get the "right" branches in the "right" spots so suitable material is very hard to find in bigger sizes.  Also, you cannot tell how a graft union will for sure swell on young ones, so it's a crap shoot  :-\.
 

ceasharp

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 12:26 PM »
@Owen I am no too sure if I follow in regards to your grafting comment? The trees haven't been grafted at all. sorry just a little confused. I was asking about repotting since most any kind of plant I get from a nursery they seem to be root bound.
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 01:14 PM »
photos, then I can clarify....
 

ceasharp

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 03:15 PM »
I attached two images I have readily available
 

rockm

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 04:06 PM »
"Most dissectums do well in full sun as well as partial shade"

This greatly depends on where you live. Here in Va., dissectums in landscapes get sunburned and can look awful from the middle of July into the fall. In containers, they can crisp sooner...
 

Yenling83

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 05:17 PM »
Yup, both of those maples have been grafted likely onto standard Green J maple.  The first photo the graft is about 75% up on the trunk and the 2nd graft is towards the lower section of the trunk.  This is very common in the nursery biz(non Bonsai Trade).  Look for a slight change in color on the trunk and a slight swelling or buldge.    

I think your best bet is to air layer some section off these if you would like to produce Bonsai with them someday.  You would have to grow those air layers out, but long run they will give you better results.  The two trees you have photos of will make nice garden trees.  
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 05:22 PM by Yenling83 »
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 06:30 PM »
I concur  :).  If you air-layer the Acer palmatum 'Dissectum', perhaps around the two small shoots coming off the trunk.  The Upright cultivar just below the "fork".

Likely better to enjoy them in the landscape and find some stock purpose-grown for bonsai or with lower graft unions.  Mountain Maples in Laytonville, CA may be closed.  They did excellent low grafts; which you paid for handsomely.....

Joe Harris does great air layers at Iseli Nursery, but not sure how a civilian could acquire them.  Anyone know?
 

Yenling83

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 07:43 PM »
I concur  :).  If you air-layer the Acer palmatum 'Dissectum', perhaps around the two small shoots coming off the trunk.  The Upright cultivar just below the "fork".

Likely better to enjoy them in the landscape and find some stock purpose-grown for bonsai or with lower graft unions.  Mountain Maples in Laytonville, CA may be closed.  They did excellent low grafts; which you paid for handsomely.....

Joe Harris does great air layers at Iseli Nursery, but not sure how a civilian could acquire them.  Anyone know?

What's the story behind Iseli nursery?  I heard Joe Harris studied in Japan, but don't know much about him.  I'm curious what you mean by how would a civilian acquire one?  Speaking of maples, I just bought a Shishigashira after seeing that beautiful one on the latest Art of Bonsai    It's a grafted tree probably about 4-5 years old.  I plan on air layering small branches and then using the Ebihara Technique to produce nice nebari. 
 

augustine

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 09:46 AM »
If the plants are kept in containers I think it is risky to place them in afternoon sun.

I've even seen landscape maples die in my area when planted in full afternoon sun and we're not as hot as you.

My cutting grown  Japanese maples do very well in morning sun and dappled shade in the afternoon in wickedly hot summers.

Question - will the dissectum root from an air layer?

Btw you can get cutting grown maples from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks, reasonably priced. There is no need to fool with grafted plants. Don't discount regular green or red seedling grown J. maples. The green ones are tough and will make fine bonsai.

Best,

Augustine
central MD 7a
 

Yenling83

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2013, 11:52 AM »

Btw you can get cutting grown maples from Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks, reasonably priced. There is no need to fool with grafted plants. Don't discount regular green or red seedling grown J. maples. The green ones are tough and will make fine bonsai.

While Brent is the man, the trouble I have with these non grafted maples is that there is nothing done to the roots.  They are tangled in a small pot when you get them and you cannot make a nice nebari with them.  With the volume and price he offers there would be no way he could work on each individual tree.  You would still have to air layer all these anyways.  Now I still say many-including myself should purchase from Brent.  He offers many hard to find types of plants, fast shipping, and they are always very healthy when they arive. 
 

Owen Reich

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 09:59 PM »
Air layers allow for excellent nebari formation if you tease them out properly at an early age and grow on for a while.  Seedlings can be wonderful if you pick the right one.  Hybrid vigor (think longer lived "mutt" dogs) is also nice.  Cutting grown trees can be nice if root work is done early.  Circling roots can ruin your day though. 

As for Iseli Nursery, it's wholesale only and has a fairly steep minimum order unless you team up with a local garden center or the like.  I'm not sure if they ship Fanciful Gardens Series plants out without the minimum order or not.  They are basically LPP (liner production pots) that kept on an extra year or so.  Cool stuff though especially if you want to try something out and not invest much. 

Joe Harris is running the Maple, Artform, and perhaps other divisions now.  Not sure if the bonsai division is still kickin' or not.  I pulled every satsuki bloom off about 100 bonsai during my internship there.  Joe is a Jedi with Satsuki and many other species.
 

rockm

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Re: Japanese Maple sun or partial shade?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013, 02:13 PM »
The subject of Mountain Maples online came up over on B'nut the other day. Seems the daughter of the original owner has taken it over. FWIW, I got an excellent low-grafted Arakawa from MM about ten years ago. It has become a monster in the ground in my backyard.

Here's the daughter's Web site.

http://www.essenceofthetree.com/