Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Deciduous Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 08:58 AM

Title: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 08:58 AM
I just got this huge Trident last night from a fellow BSG member.  Not sure he wants me to name him, so for now, it came from a very experienced and talented bonsaist.

Here are the pictures of the root system as is.  It was suggested to me to plant this in a cement mixing bin, and I'm asking for suggestions how to best proceed at this crucial time.  

Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 09:00 AM
I just realized I didn't get a shot of it standing upright.  Let me know if you want/need this shot.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 09:03 AM
Stange...The ones with improper orientation are displayed perfectly in Picasso.  Not sure why they are upside down/sideways.

Edit:  Ok, I got the orientations right.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: nathanbs on March 23, 2012, 09:39 AM
i would gently wash off the dirt and put it in fast draining inorganic soil and you should be fine. ideally 2 parts akadama 1 part lava 1 part pumice, add a little charcoal and a little decomposed granite. This is boons mix for deciduous
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: bwaynef on March 23, 2012, 10:00 AM
What nathan said, except I'd go ahead and cut off any roots growing straight down.  I can't really decide if your final nebari is there ...or if you'll have to grow it yourself.  If the latter, go ahead and start addressing that now.  Make sure you secure it in the pot/tub.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 10:24 AM
Thanks guys!  I realized it would help if I had pics of the nebari.  Again strange, it only is oriented the right way if I upload one picture at a time.  At least you all have the pics now ;)

Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: John Kirby on March 23, 2012, 10:37 AM
Wash lightly as Nathan suggests, then cut everything off that isn't part of the ring of roots (or small roots that emerge around the trunk at the same level or so). Get it into the tub, add the soil, water it in well and then put Sphagnum moss around the trunk. Waterwell. Be sure to not leave any big airpockets under the trunk. Do not seal any of the cuts below ground- they will serve as stating points for more roots.

Move to a location (before watering!) where it can sit for an extended period- until June or later, before it would have to be moved.  This will protect the roots from breaking off as they emerge from new spots.

Good luck. You should have seen the really big ones, Frank must have been hiding those. I know the big kahuna is still in place, maybe I can convince the buyer to let me in to dig em. Folks looking for big tridents, PM me, I can put you in contact with the digger or show some that we have in tubs that will be repotted in to boxes soon.

John

 
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 10:53 AM
Thanks John for the detailed instructions!  And now you all know where I got this monster from ;))  And John?  There are even bigger ones??  Wow!  This one is plenty big for me lol

John, any particular location?  I have full sun areas, a small area with 30% shade cloth, and a north side that gets at the most, an hr or two of direct sun, the rest in total shade and not a lot of air movement there too.

I've been using for substrate, 1 part Turface, 1 part grit and 1 part lava and charcoal.  Now that I've been watching how fast they dry out, I'm thinking of changing to 2 parts Turface, 1 part grit and 1 part lava and charcoal.   What would you recommend?

Oh, and one last question, does it matter the size whole I drill for drainage as long as they are spread out evenly on the bottom of the  tub?...like is it better to have say 1" whole every 6" or so, or 1/2" every few inches?  (I've been wondering about this a lot as I've been potting up trees in wooden boxes this spring)


Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 11:53 AM
Oh, and John, I only have the small version of the cement mixing tub, it looked like it was in the larger version.  I have the day off today and can run to H Depot and get a larger one if you think that's better.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 02:22 PM
Well I looked pretty carefully and it was in a lg. cement tub.  So I just got back from the store with a big one. 

I'm just going to use 3/4" holes and place in full sun as I need to get this potted up.

Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 07:49 PM
Wow, what a job!  Made worse when I halfway had it filled in with my normal mix and tried lifting it...forget it!  So I had to scoop out the Turface/Grit/Lava and changed over to 2:1 Turface/Lava.  Now I could handle it alone.  So the first three pics are with the orig. substrate and the last two are the completed potting on the side of the backyard.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 23, 2012, 07:50 PM
The other two.  I had some 1" PVC pipe laying around, and moving the tub was cracking it.  So I wired up pieces of the PVC under the lip of the tub.  Very sturdy and works like a charm.

No I'm off to pass out LOL
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: T-Town Bonsai on March 23, 2012, 09:18 PM
Looking good.  Now don't mess with it and let it grow.
Frank
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 24, 2012, 08:42 AM
Thanks Frank!  And it's in a place that has great sun and I will not touch it till next winter when I'll bring in for protection.  Should be real interesting how much new growth it'll push out this summer

On thought if I could get your advice?  What happens if the temps don't stay above 40F at night?  What should I do if it hits 32F?...so hoping not though ;)
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: donmaple on March 24, 2012, 11:43 AM
Great job Chris! Thanks for posting. If you feed this monster all spring and let the top grow uncontrolled you will be astounded at the root mass when you repot. Good luck on what can be a really hansom trident. You need to let the tree grow to regain some health, but when you do repot cut all those roots that grow straight down and when you trim the others make your cuts horizontal with the planted angle of the tree. You will see your nebari flare out! Tridents are really tough and forgiving trees. Excellent find! Don.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 24, 2012, 06:11 PM
Thank You Don!  I already cut off the huge straight down roots...I love my sawzall! 

I too am really excited as I can envision what the tree will look like years down the road.  I'm giving it a 2 wk. rest before I start fertilizing the heck out of it, I read you should do that to newly transplanted trees.  Anyway, I have John and Frank to Thank as well for growing, and selling me this Trident! 

My back yard is finally starting to look halfway decent now too ;)
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 29, 2012, 09:45 AM
I've been studying the tree quite a bit, and am wondering if I should chop the straight trunk off this season about 2" up.  And then let it grow.  If I wait a yr. to grow out, pick a new leader and then make the chop.  It'll seem like I've wasted a yr. in starting to a leader that obviously has to start low on that straight section of the trunk.  What do you all think?
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: MatsuBonsai on March 29, 2012, 09:48 AM
I would probably leave it. The act of cutting will likely disturb the trunk/roots and cause additional damage to those roots just starting to grow.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 29, 2012, 09:51 AM
Ok, Thank You Matsu.  Just needed an experienced voice telling me what's the right thing to do.  And I don't disagree.  Maintaining and furthering the health of the tree is first and foremost. 
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: roberthu on March 29, 2012, 04:49 PM
I use just sand to plant collected tridents. Never failed and they all have massive roots after three month. But I usually wait until November to do the report and by that time, I trim the roots hard. Then I keep them in the garage for the whole winter. Hope it helps.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 31, 2012, 12:45 AM
Thanks for sharing Robert, I hadn't heard of using pure sand with Tridents, interesting what'll work ;)
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: John Kirby on March 31, 2012, 07:46 AM
Sand (coarse) could work well, just get three 50 lb bags of sand.........

Get the picture?
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on March 31, 2012, 09:39 AM
My back got the message crystal clear John lol  Sand is heavy as lead, taken from experience using it to make a koi pond I later had to throw out b/c raccoons kept killing my expensive fish...pretty funny/sad story.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on July 06, 2012, 12:44 PM
Here's an update.  Growing really well.  I finally had one bud break where I wanted it to be, but it's weak and being overwhelmed by the rest of the new growth.  Plus, with this heat, I got home a bit late from work and it had dried out and I lost like 5 tips of new growth, of course the weak bud was one.  No further insults fortunately! But the weak bud is only 2" long with like 3 or 4 leaves.  And hasn't started growing a new tip yet...but I'm sure the 103 yest, 102 today isn't helping.  At least I'm keeping it watered and fed well.

My question is should I cut back all the other growth to give my weak/new leader more light?  Or now that the roots are established, I could do a trunk chop and inch or so above the new leader?   You can see from the pics below where I'm pointing to the new leader, here are a couple of pics.  Suggestions anyone?
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: sekibonsai on July 06, 2012, 01:51 PM
A partial defoliation and pruning away completely unwanted shoots maybe a good compromise. 

I would wait on the trunk chop- one major insult per year.  I can grow tridents in full TX sun in grow-out boxes as long as the roots are healthy. 

Perhaps consider shading the roots with cloth to keep the heat down?
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: John Kirby on July 06, 2012, 02:14 PM
Just leave it alone. The leaves are supporting roots and their growth. Cut it back in the fall.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on July 06, 2012, 02:44 PM
Ok John, I just didn't want that bud to die off from being over shadowed by the rest of the growth.   But even if it doesn't thrive this yr., waiting to do another chop this fall 'should' make that bud stronger next yr.  Thanks.

sekibonsai, I have covered the west facing part of the tub with white foamy shelf liner stuff as that side dried out much quicker than the e. side of the tub.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: jlushious on July 19, 2013, 05:32 PM
Any update on this tree Chris?
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on July 19, 2013, 09:08 PM
It died after I cleaned dead peeling bark nearly all around the base of the tree...like 270 degree of the trunk was dead. 
So sorry, not a happy ending.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: John Kirby on July 19, 2013, 11:09 PM
Well that is too bad, I have literally dug hundreds of these and only lost one or two. I sold 50 or so to Matt O and a friend in Chicago area, they lost one the first year between them. I always have grown mine under 30% shade in the siyth, here in NE full sun in the big tubs.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: John Kirby on July 20, 2013, 06:27 AM
Siyth= South; big fingers small phone.
Title: Re: First Potting of Field Grown Trident
Post by: Chrisl on July 20, 2013, 11:41 AM
It was growing John, but not thriving.  I had to clean up the dead bark region. 

And I've just had the worst luck this yr. Most of my collection is thriving, but some of my conifers have had nothing but problems.  And I might loose an awesome Itoigawa and that JBP I got from Brussels.  All three together I'm loosing $1,000 worth of material.  Pretty demoralized to say the least.