Author Topic: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin  (Read 35328 times)

SpongeMann

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Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« on: January 26, 2015, 02:58 PM »
These invasive guys are everywhere out here. You  don't see too many fully grown trees. They get chopped down quick. But I found this one in the woods. It hav a little bit of a inverse taper but I can fix that. I took terrible pics of the roots . But they have the nitrogen fixing nodules. That are pretty cool. I truck chopped it last year while it was in the ground. And I collected it yesterday with the Crape. It was pretty leggy. Lets see how it recovers from the transplant.
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 03:28 PM »
I am debating on making a longer cut and deadwood or hollowing out the trunk just for practice.  This tree must be 6  years old. From what I read I guess they only live 15 years. I have a few small albizias that have pretty good leaf reduction. What do you guys think?
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 03:56 PM »
I am going to take 4inches off and it will be a 12 inches tall
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 04:34 PM »
A little albizia I started messing around with last summer. I finally got a couple of branches. It has been a slow process. But it is just for practice. I dont want to buy any trees till I feel like I have learned enough to uderstand their needs.
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 04:37 PM »
Here it is. I will prune the apex in a few days.
 

coh

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 04:43 PM »
I'm looking forward to seeing these trees develop. I've got a couple that I'm working with up here. One is in a pot so development is slow (I'm still working on trunk size...got the tree from someone in Louisiana so don't know if it would survive in the ground here). The other is a supposedly hardier cultivar (E.H. Wilson) that has been in the ground for 2 seasons and is developing quickly. It gets another year in the ground, then gets dug for root work in 2016. Provided it survives, that is, as we're near the edge of their range. It did make it through the super cold winter last year, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

Chris
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2015, 04:11 PM »
Nice big trunk for a starter tree. I would not do the long angle cut until after a growing season or two. You want to see where it buds back, then figure out branch placement. Afterwards then you can cut the angle to shape the wound, from just above a bottom branch to just below the top branch. If you cut the long angle now and branches don't appear in the ''right" places you may have trouble healing the wound.

As for published life spans of trees, generally those 'lifespans' are bogus. I have seen plenty of Albizia well over 30 and 40 years old in the landscape. If the data came from Landscape Architecture texts, it refers to how long it will be a small graceful flowering tree in a manicured garden setting, after which it will get too big and unruly to fit the garden magazine ideal for a little tree. The old Albizia I have seen were ''ugly'', lots of broken branches, and leaving large amounts of litter on the ground, ugly for a manicured garden, but just fine as a tree.

Timber trees often have listed life spans, for example red oak is listed as 70 years in Wisconsin, we all know of oaks that are hundreds of years old. The source of the "lifespan" data is from a lumber production orientated forest management article, that is the age at which a large planting of many acres will have roughly 25% of the trees developing heart wood rots, beginning to form hollow trunks thus making the $$$ yield for timber harvest less valuable. Trees have open ended life spans, they don't expire the way dogs and people do. So ignore published life span data when considering species for bonsai, unless you know specifically how the data would apply to a bonsai setting.

Mulberries are listed as short lived trees, yet the mulberries planted by Thomas Jefferson at Monticello in Virginia are still there, and growing.

But you have a nice start there with your Albizia, both look good. I like your concept of practicing on free material that is locally native. That is the ''original'' concept that the Japanese used before bonsai was a major nursery industry in Japan. What other species grow in your  landscape that interest you? I recommend getting about 10 to 25 trees in pots to keep you busy enough while learning so that you won''t be tempted to do too much in one growing season on any one tree. The solution to impatience is to have more trees.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2015, 04:18 PM »
I just noticed your other posts, you have a bunch of projects going. That is the way to learn, good start.
 

SpongeMann

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Re:
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2015, 03:03 AM »
Hey fellas thank you for participating in the thread. Chris I ve been dying for someone with albizia j to respond . How do you make your trees break bud for lateral growth?  I find cut and grow  to work with heavy fertilizing. You will be pretty surprised my uncle in Upstate New York has a tree that I gave him and it wakes back up every spring it'll have a few limbs missing but it grows them back fast. The small tree Im messing with has been in a wallapini all winter it has some yellow leaves but it hasnt gone dormant. Im in norther central florida. It'll drop down in the twenties .
Leo thanks everything you said just saved me soo much time. Ive been researching and all I could come up with was a blog about keeping trees young by active growth by pruning. That if you prune a normal  mature tree for years it'll live for a long time and yeah that sounds logical. But you have settled my thoughts lol. It all makes so much sense now. Thats cool that you noticed my intentions.  I didnt know that is is the original concept of bonsai. My interest in bonsai  started because of a crape myrtle from my threads thats was on my property. It was 3and 1/2 feet tall but it looked like a tree . So I started researching online and I noticed it was still too big. I also noticed alot of videos and blogs from novices on trees that they bought in box stores or nurseries. And I didn't want to be that guy. I wanted to learn from what i see every day when I look outside and see the Live Oaks , Swamp Bays,and Dahoon Hollies on my property.  Which I have a few pre bonsai of. The Swamp Bay they respond very good to trunk chops. Sometimes the growth will only sprout from the base. I think its good material and the sap smells great. You could break a branch or crush a leaf and smell it . Its great. Trees that grab my interest are Sea grape, bald Cypress, Muscadine grapes which I have a vine that I want to harvest but I dont know enough of. Pineland Acacia,Florida mahogany and Gumbo limbo which I haven't found yet Eastern Redbud,Black mangrove , on the bucketlist, and my favorite Ficus Aurea. There are many more but these are my tops. I started bonsai because of the crape and I love trees. I would  sit outside and always be amazed by the live oaks. I grew up in New England our trees are similar to Illinois trees  . When I moved down here and seen the variety of trees that grew here I was hooked.  I have succulents and fruit trees that keep me busy most of the time.
 

coh

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Re:
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2015, 02:23 PM »
Hey fellas thank you for participating in the thread. Chris I ve been dying for someone with albizia j to respond . How do you make your trees break bud for lateral growth?  I find cut and grow  to work with heavy fertilizing. You will be pretty surprised my uncle in Upstate New York has a tree that I gave him and it wakes back up every spring it'll have a few limbs missing but it grows them back fast. The small tree Im messing with has been in a wallapini all winter it has some yellow leaves but it hasnt gone dormant. Im in norther central florida. It'll drop down in the twenties .
I haven't done any pruning yet. My trees are being allowed to just grow to build the size trunk I want.  The one in the ground may be in line for a significant cut back this spring, but I'll have to reevaluate once the weather starts to warm up.

There are a few here and there in the landscape out here. We are in an area that is somewhat tempered by the Lakes, so it doesn't get as cold here as it does in other parts of upstate NY. Typically each winter we'll get down to about -10 F once or twice. I think the coldest ever recorded was -22 but I've been here for 10+ years and don't think we've gotten below -10 or -12. I did notice that the ones in the landscape suffered more extensive winter damage last year.

By the way, Bill Valavanis had a couple of albizia bonsai at one point. As he puts it, they are now "permanently dormant" (not sure what happened to them). You can see a photo of one of his here (scroll down to the next to last image):

http://artofbonsai.org/galleries/valavanis.php

Chris
 

SpongeMann

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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2015, 05:40 PM »
Yes I seen the tree a couple of years ago online. But I couldnt find any blogs specifically for that tree. I get pretty good leaf reduction on my bad material that I prune for practice.   I put them in full sun and prune and they get drastically smaller. I will post pics this summer.
 

Leo in NE Illinois

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 09:35 PM »
Your list of the locally native trees is excellent. Dahoon Hollies and bald cypress definitely make good bonsai. For the holly, you can follow the general care and pruning techniques that the Japanese use for their native deciduous holly. Bald Cypress is a favorite of mine, though I currently only have a few seedlings.

Swamp bay is a problem common name, do you mean a Persea palustris? Perhaps a Lindera species? Or Magnolia virginiana? Or Myrica species? K Murata in his book Four Seasons of Bonsai has a lovely photo of the Japanese species of Lindera, it definitely makes a good bonsai, I don't understand why in the USA we haven't seen many using any of the 3 native species of Lindera. Persea palustris should make a decent bonsai. But I don't know much about Persea palustris. My guess would be that it would have some of the same design problems that magnolia has, being leaves on the large side and a somewhat coarse branch structure, making fine ramification difficult. Both problems can be solved with time. One method would be to shoot for a larger size bonsai, say over 24 inches tall and wide. I would be very interested in seeing a thread devoted to Swamp Bay, regardless of which of the possible unrelated genera yours is in. 

One of the days I'll have to post a photo of my Bursera fagariodes the Mexican species related to Gumbo Limbo. I like it for its fragrant sap, love working on it, but it has issues, always wants to create reverse taper here and there. Neat tree none the less. And totally drought tolerant - I haven't watered mine in over 2 months (leave leave it dormant for the winter). Behaves more like a cactus than a tree.
 

SpongeMann

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Re:
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2015, 03:09 PM »
Yes it is Persea palustrus. The leaves aren't too bad they are like medium sized ficus leaves . I really like how they just want to grow.  I collected a few to mess around with and chopped one   back within a week it sprouted buds all over.
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2015, 03:18 PM »
I went back today and collected two Albizia j. that I tagged. I was able to get a good amount of roots on one. the other Has a few I think it'll make it. Ill put it in a metal table I have outside.  And see if the heat helps root growth.
 

SpongeMann

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Re: Collected Albizia Jullibrissin
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2015, 03:24 PM »
Here is the first one. I cut into the branch last year to make it into a twin trunk. And the bark has rolled over alot in the past year. I think It'll be pretty cool.