Author Topic: 4th July Cypress  (Read 16259 times)

rockm

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2009, 08:48 AM »
Ken,

VERY nice composition, skillfully executed. I wish I could find material like that to work with.

One tweak, though..Ever thought about a longer, lower pot? I understand collected BC can sometimes have stubborn root masses, but this composition would work even better in a shallower, longer pot. A lower profile with extra "white space" to the right of the trees (which would suggest open bayou water) would emphasize the trunks even more and allow the image to "breath" a bit.
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2009, 09:46 AM »
Thank You rockm for your kind comments.
You can find material every where, You just have to look. It may not be Bald Cypress but there is something in your neck of the woods that will, with time and effort make something just as good. The fun is getting out in the woods looking, it like fishing you don't always catch what you are looking for but it is fun just the same.
Pots can be hard, it seems that you never have the right one. This tree is large, 40 inches tall and about 11 inches wide at the soil level. I guess that I am from the old school in that the depth of the pot should be equal to the width if the trunk although this is a deep pot it is only about half (23" wide 5.5" deep) of what the width of the trunk is. That being said I am intrigued by your suggestion. Maybe you can do virt of what You had in mind.
Thanks again
Ken  
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 09:52 AM by ken duncan »
 

weeijk

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2009, 10:22 AM »
Hi Ken, agree a little on the pot, have used one of Walter Palls for this virt, hope you get an idea.....

cheers Wessel
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2009, 10:31 AM »
Hi again Wessel,
Boy I have to get away from this computer and get some work done.
Thank You for another fine virt, it gives me something to think about, but buying another 3 or 4 or 5 hundred dollar pot makes my heart skip a beat.
Ken
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 10:39 AM by ken duncan »
 

rockm

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2009, 10:43 AM »
Ken,

Unfortunately, I don't have the skill or the software to do an adequate understandable virt. I have my own collected BC in a long, low ash glazed oval pot. much like those here:
http://www.albrightpots.com/pots_oval.htm

Red brown ash glazes like these:
http://www.langbonsai.com/

go great with BC bark. I have my big BC in one of Ron's ash glazed pots.

I have found that BC, with their exaggerated basal flare, can present some difficulty in using the traditional width/depth formula for pot sizing. You can wind up with pots that can be imposing--at the expense of the trees inside. Some BC can handle imposing pots, but with alot of them, it's not necessary.

Instead of thinking in terms of trunk, I sometimes think in terms of setting. Thinking of your two trees as a forest planting, not a specimen planting, for instance, frees up some pot choices. Pots for forest plantings don't necessarily try to match trunk girth. The containers used for forests tend to be longer and shallower, allowing more room for the composition  inside them. Forests  require some "white space" in the composition for the eye to rest, or to suggest open space adjacent the forest. Penjing compositions do this too, only more explicitly.

I have collected native S.E. US trees for a while. Quality BC like yours are wonderful to work with. Unfortunately, I  don't have ready access to native BC of any quality here in No. Va. I have to rely on trips to Texas or other collectors to get  them.

 

Rick Moquin

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2009, 11:37 AM »
Getting pots (large) is quite a proposition and yes once I found out the size I had a heart attack as well. If cost was no object a shallower pot will retain more moisture than a deeper one of equal volume, I say this because BCs grow in swamps.
 

rockm

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 12:38 PM »
Wessel's virt is a start. The pot isn't really wide enough though, in my opinion. Several inches wider, a half inch or so shallower...

Yeah, big trees need big pots. Big pots are expensive. Really nice big pots are hugely expensive... :D :'( That's one of the downsides of big trees... you also might need might need more hernia insurance than mame growers. ;D

For what it's worth (and you already all of know this), domestic pots are less expensive than Japanese or other imports -- with the possible exception of some Chinese stuff. 



 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2009, 02:10 PM »
Rockm, Thank You for your input. I agree that after studying Wessel's virt next to the original pic I can see your point. Maybe some day a pot will be found, if I can afford it.
I have not found a potter that will make a pot that is 30" to 36" wide, wish I could.
I still think that this was not good material to start with, it little taper and the cut at the top was about 4" to 5" wide , hard to transition, also the roots did not radiate all the way around the trunk. By carving a poor piece of material and with many years in a pot and effort, I think a decent tree was made. We have a saying down here "You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s--t" but maybe if you try hard enough and use some tricks, you can.
Here are a few bad, old, scaned pics from the day it was carved.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 02:19 PM by ken duncan »
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2009, 04:23 PM »
You are welcome Irene, I would love to see how that tree looks today. Have you seen it lately?
Ken
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2009, 04:39 PM »
I need to make a correction. This tree was collected in 1994 or 1995, it was not carved until 1998. Saw it on one of the old pics.
Sucks to get old.
Ken
 

rockm

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 08:39 AM »
Ken,

 Your work with this is  outstanding. From the pics of the final product, the drastic steps aren't visible.  It's very natural looking and you should be proud.

For what it's worth, Ron Lang makes pots that big and is VERY good at it. Go to:
http://www.langbonsai.com/

and click on the "technical information" link on the left side. Look at the slideshows of him making big ovals.

Ron is not inexpensive, but he's cheaper than Japanese imports. His pots are stellar (I own several), heavy, frost proof and well thought out. I'm spoiled because he's up in Baltimore only 40 miles away. I see his work at the National Arboretum every year when the PBA show rolls around. He's also a good guy and will work with you on exactly what you need.
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 08:59 AM »
Rockm, Thank you very much for your kind words and the info about Ron Lang.
Ken
 

weeijk

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 11:12 AM »
Yes RockM, thats quit a lot of money for those pots, compared some Tokoname against the ones from Ron Lang.

Tokoname: slab 16x11x0,8 inch http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/gallery/48f89.htm  without shipping ~65$
Lang        : slab 16x8 inch organic 
                                                                                                              150$
Tokoname: oval 16x12x2,2 inch  http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/gallery/86f30.htm  without shipping  ~145$
Lang        : oval  17x14x2,5 inch Straight lip, Flush foot- Sprayed Glaze  1-3 inch deep 15-17 inch long  150-250$

Offcourse the glaze on Ron's pots is much nicer and the slab is looking better too, but I think you could order directly from Japan and get those pots over for round 100$. Than you would be paying round the same amount in total.......

I used the real Tokoname site, think you can find other potters, who are probably even cheaper. Maybe you can find them in England aswell, people like John Pitt and Andy Pearson (Stone Monkey) for instance a 11,4 inch round unglazed from Stone  Monkey costs round 100$ http://www.stonemonkeyceramics.co.uk/    Here's the link to John Pitt  http://www.johnpittbonsaiceramics.co.uk/
 

Jay Wilson

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 11:55 AM »
Ken,
I find it interesting that you collect BC in July and I see from the pictures you are digging them in standing water.

I've had my eye on a couple of BC's for a few years but never seem to take the time to collect them in January which I've been told is the proper time to lift them in central Florida.

So, do you think I could collect in July in Fl. ?

If so, are there any hints or tricks to successful summer collecting you can share with us?

Thanks for all the posting you've done here....

Jay
 

ken duncan

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Re: 4th July Cypress
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 12:24 PM »
Hi Jay, We have found over the years that collecting BC in late June to early July has been the best time for collecting stumps, better success rate.
That is where a tree say is 6" at the base and 20' tall is dug and the top is cut off leaving a stump of about 3'. They bud back in about 3 or 4 weeks and grow strong for the rest of the summer. The bigger the tree the better the success rate. Sometimes the medium size trees do not make it as well. We have not found any Cypress that were dwarfed as you see in South Fla., I do not know if they would make it being collected in July. All of The trees that we have collected in early Spring seem not to make it unless you have a green house to warm them up, they seem to like the heat. I do not know about Fla. collecting, but You might try to collect one and see.
Good luck.
Ken
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 12:39 PM by ken duncan »