Author Topic: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka  (Read 5178 times)

Dale Cochoy

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2011, 05:59 PM »
JRob,
Here are a couple shots from today of two glazed frog  pots by the same maker. The one with the plant is the one in the picture with the San Jose Juniper.
You know, I always assumed these were by the same artist that made the unglazed ones above, but the more I look at the 'style' and the signatures I don't think so. The sigs on the glazed pots are just about  unreadable.

Further, to confuse you even more, here are two more contemporary glazed frog pots that I literally bought out of a 'barrel' full of pots at the Tokyo Green Club in 2000 for $15 each! I had 6 of these and sold 4. The stamp on these is small and unreadable also.

It just goes to show you that 'borrowing' a good bonsai pottery idea is just as popular in Japan as it is in the USA.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 06:07 PM by Dale Cochoy »
 

Roccomp

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2011, 02:27 PM »
Nice post, thanks for sharing the story & images.
 

Dale Cochoy

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2011, 06:53 PM »
Nice post, thanks for sharing the story & images.

Thanks,
Last progressive story post here!

D.
 

bwaynef

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 09:46 PM »
Wow!  This is an interesting thread.  I'm impressed by how well-documented its history is as anything else.  Some of the notes on the old pictures reads like a who's who.  I meant to comment on this earlier, but once the conversation got sidetracked to pots apparently I forgot to come back.

I'm surprised to see that Cheryl (or anyone really) would take it upon herself to choose a new front and rework Naka's work.  I just haven't seen much willingness to change a tree that's been worked on by a renowned artist.  (That's not to say that I think it was inappropriate of Cheryl to rework Naka's design ...or that its a lesser tree as a result.)  I wonder if Naka's front would still make a viable tree, or were critical branches on that tree used as jin in the new version. 

It looks like you've chosen to stick fairly close to Cheryl's design.  What factored into that decision?
 

Mitch Thomas

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 08:36 AM »
Hi Dale
This is a very interesting thread. The documentation is amazing. I also like that the new styling has moved back towards Johns design. I think his original design was the strongest for this piece  material.

Please post more!

I really like seeing that huge Bald Cypress in the green house.

MT
 

John Kirby

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2011, 08:46 AM »
I was at the 2002 ABS convention in Milwaukee. Cheryl did a great job in prepping the material for her workshop and for her Demonstration. I sat through the demonstration and the additional work she was doing outside of the demo. The tree had developed differently than I believe Naka had thought it might. When she did the work in 2002, it was obvious that she had chosen the best way to deal with the material on that day, without sending it out to grow for few more years to go back to the original design. I thought she did as nice of a demonstration that I have watched, very high quality work and well thought out.

Redesigning a John Naka tree. Why not? If you do a good job of ensuring that the provenance of the tree follows it, like a lot of the Kimura reworks of old masterpiece trees, why not? Frequently people let the old masters trees decline, get weak and die because they are unwilling to do the significant work that is frequently required to keep these trees healthy, vibrant and growing.

Dale, you snagged this one, I am not sure that you ever had a bigger smile.......
John
 

Mitch Thomas

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2011, 09:42 AM »
Hi John
I agree the tree had declined before it was reworked. Cheryl did a great job on the restyle with the tree she had to work with, it was a very different state when she had it. Not to mention the pressure of re doing a masters tree. As we all know this art form is fluid and constantly changing.  I just prefer the original design.

MT
 

Dale Cochoy

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2011, 12:55 PM »
OK, a few comments that everyone may not agree with.
I FULLY expected everyone to say they liked John Nakas original design better. But, hero worship aside, lets look at some tree facts.
First, if you look at Mr. Nakas original sketch it appears ( to me) to be VERY embellished in branch movement, spacing and trunk/rootage. This is something I commonly see in a demo pre-sketch or post demo "in the future...." sketch.

Second, if you look at the "2 years later" photo you will see a LOT of dead branches/snags. Now, I don't know if this was originally done by John Naka or these branches died during the two years. As someone who has watched Mr. Naka do a few demos I could SURELY see branches dying off post demo/original styling. In fact, a couple I've seen I truly wondered how long they stayed green! this happens with ALL of us, famous or not!

I tried to stick with Cheryls design as close as possible for a couple reasons. First off, she is a great tree designer and I liked it! ( I did extend the jin/shari over the years. )Second, the tree was in need of lots of work AND repotting in the same season. And, It's hard to tell in the sketch, but, with the dead snags/and cut off branches, I see in the 2 yr photo it is QUITE POSSIBLE that the original front simply couldn't work out? With Cheryls styling you have only two front choices as the branches sweep to one side. Also, I like both the front AND back design as it is now and could look at both as very attractive. this is not always the case.


BTW, John, Yes, I was very suprised to win the tree in the banquet raffle. If you remember, as each person won something he/she came up to claim the prize AND draw the NEXT ticket for the next item. In my case, as I won the tree I got dirty looks and comments :>) from my business partner that I was sitting next to. As I went up to draw the next winner for a FANTASTIC big Ponderosa Pine that was styled by Harold Sasaki ( If I remember right?) and I drew my partners ticket!!!! He changed his mind about me winning IMMEDIATELY!! :>)
 

bwaynef

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2011, 01:53 PM »
Redesigning a John Naka tree. Why not?
That's a question I've often asked, or at least wondered.  If there's a better tree in there, why not uncover that ...just because someone with a recognizable name left it covered (or it wasn't there for him/her)?  

OK, a few comments that everyone may not agree with.
I FULLY expected everyone to say they liked John Nakas original design better. But, hero worship aside, lets look at some tree facts.

Since I was the one that brought it up, I wanted to point out that I didn't suggest Naka's design was superior.  (I tried to at least SOUND agnostic).  Your (and kirby's) comments about health/dieback answered my question about the original front also.

Again, thanks for a well-documented post.  Hope Asheville treats you well this weekend.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 02:09 PM by bwaynef »
 

Dale Cochoy

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2011, 02:12 PM »
Again, thanks for a well-documented post.  Hope Asheville treats you well this weekend.

Thanks Wayne, I hope so also. Last show of the season for me.
BTW, I'm bringing something special for the Arboretum  Bonsai collection and Arthur for Friday night.

Dale
 

John Kirby

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Re: Working on a San Jose Juniper that was originally styled by John Naka
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2011, 05:45 PM »
I like Cheryl's as well, much bolder.