Author Topic: Shimpaku's Initial Styling  (Read 5201 times)

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2011, 11:18 AM »
Please totally ignore that last post....I went to change it but too much time passed... Can the admin delete this post 14?

Here's what I wanted to say:  Matsu, I found your fantastic post about bending:  http://bonsaistudygroup.com/advanced-bending-discussion/bending-a-western-juniper/

On another thread, I see when you said a jack...you didn't mean a jack used to change tires but this "branch bender" from Dallas Bonsai:  http://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/BB83-bonsai-tool-branch-bender.html
LOL 

Great photos and explanations.  So let me see if I can apply this to mine.  First, wrap the trunk in raffia or elec. tape, wire it up with 2-6 g. copper wire runs.  Cut rebar to length to create a fulcrum at the point of the lowest jin at one end, and the other on at where I want the bend to begin, use the jack to squeeze the two parts fo the trunk together to make the bend, and hold it in place with guy wires and the copper wire runs.  Adjusting and/or adding additional guy wires to get it to the place where I want it?

I do believe this is what you and John were thinking of right?  If so, this is only good for bending, not creating any twisting movement to the trunk?

Thanks Matsu and John!  I've got more threads to read, but I think I have the basic understanding now...I think ;))
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2011, 11:31 AM »
You can see the branch bender on the table in the 7th picture, and the clamp on the tree.  I wouldn't recommend electrical tape.  Use the bender to make the bend, the clamp (if needed) to hold the bend while you attach the guy wire(s).  For larger bends additional lengths of wire can be applied vertically/lengthwise along the outside of the bend for additional support.  In my thread we hollowed the tree to remove some deadwood that wouldn't have allowed the tree to bend, and to allow for easier bending.

Here's what I think John Kirby may have been referring.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 11:36 AM by MatsuBonsai »
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2011, 12:12 PM »
Thank You Matsu!!  I now see it.  And Thanks for that thread link of Johns'!  Wow!!  Mr. Akio is amazing!  What a bending job...I know see what you both  mean about using rebar, fulcrums, jacks/branch benders, clamps and guy wires.  Man, one almost needs an engineering degree to "work that magic" lol

I'm not so proficient at applying raffia despite Ryan Neil showing me exactly how to do it correctly.  That's why I thought using elec. tape would work.   But John was right in that thread, elec. tape does have a tendency to stretch so I see why he and Boon like using raffia.  I should practice this winter to see if I can get a tight wrap that holds.

Matsu and John, now that I've bookmarked those two great threads about bending.  Am I right to assume that I can use the same techniques to also induce some twisting movement to the trunk while bending it?  Seems if I'm smart enough to place the fulcrums where I want them, then I should be able to twist some movement in as well as the bending?...I'm still getting over that Pond. Pine's work....
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2011, 12:19 PM »
I'm not sure I would attempt to twist at this point.  I prefer to induce twists on material when it is younger, or start with material that already has some twist.  I don't think you'll be able to twist the main trunk, and twists in other areas wouldn't match the rest of the tree.  Best to continue with bends next year and continue to improve the overall image with what you currently have, and grow out what you don't.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2011, 01:20 AM »
Ok, Thanks Matsu for telling me what I also thought, but didn't want to admit  ;)  I was just hoping that it might be possible.  But you are right to do some bending next spring and work with what I have.  I need to be better at picking good stock; stock that will fit what I want to accomplish next time.  But I'll enjoy the tree I have and work to style it.  I know there's a great bonsai in there somewhere lol

Matsu, can you tell me where you'd make the bends this tree?  I don't want to bend it like a maple, ie) a zig zaging trunk.  And I don't want a classic cascade bonsai.  I want a Shimpaku that is contorted and shaped like a windswept informal semi cascade??, weathered (like the shari from the base scar to the base jins, and eventually up to the top jin.)  Since I can't twist it, (and I agree, twisting the top and not the bottom wouldn't look right), the contortions will have to be via bending.  I'd love to hear what you'd do as I really only have one idea, and I'm not sure it's that good lol  Most of the Shiimpaku's that I've see all have twists...esp. collected specimens.  But my idea is to bring the left dominant branch down and forward, while bending the trunk at the level of the lowest jins, about 135 degree down and forward that would continue the line of the dominant branch.
Does that make sense?  I sure hope so.  But anyway Matsu, I'd love to hear your approach to this bonsai as you have a lot more experience and I'm sure, you've seen many more Shimpaku's than I have.  (I am slowly making my way thru Mr. Kimura's "Magician" series 2.  Many awesome bonsai's that I'm trying to get ideas from.  But his trees are something else just to begin with ;) )

Thanks for all the help Matsu!  I can't Thank You enough for sharing your time and ideas!
Chris
 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:45 AM by Chrisl »
 

John Kirby

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2011, 01:21 AM »
Chrisi,
The only point that I was trying to make was that you can bend Juniper material of just about any size with materials commonly found around the neighborhood without resorting to specialty equipment. Using a bonsai "C-clamp" style jack, and a fulcrum made from 1x2" material, anchored to a piece (or 3 wired together) of rebar can lead to a bend at a fairly precise place, and if raffia and large copper wire are used appropriately, a protected place. The same effect, though generally less acute and precise can be achieved with guy wires on slimmer material. The hollowing technique can be used with very specific planning so that you can both hide it and you get the bend that you are looking for, however be very careful with it, if you hollow and then bend a twist you may break all of the "life line" and kill the tree above the bend. As with most things, it is often best to work with someone who can walk you through the process, showing how to evaluate the bend as you move through it.

Larry's book was fun to participate in. The goal was to give folks a whole range of options that have worked for different locations, I think the key to it is that Ponderosa pines can be quite flexible and thrive in many climates if well cared for.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2011, 01:46 AM »
John you posted your note while I was typing out mine ;)  I see what you mean after seeing that Ponderosa Pine thread.  Incredible!  See what you think of my design thoughts I outlined above,  I'd love to hear your thoughts to what you might think would work with this specimen.  I removed the rebar today as you were right, it's too cumbersome and kinda dangerous lol  So tomorrow I'm going to redo the copper wiring to get it moving in the right direction till decide on the final design.

I'm taking a bonsai class from the bonsai curator at the Chicago Botanic Garden in October.  So I can bring this bonsai and get his opinion.  I've come to the conclusion that I may have to use bends and no twists, but if the bonsai master at the Garden has an idea, I'll be all ears.  I'd never do any major procedure because I don't understand the whole "life line" business that well.  I know what it means, just not how to work with it and not kill the tree.  

Oh, and John, IF I feel like I'm not getting much from the Garden's classes, I'll contact Matthew Ouwinga and take some classes from him.  Either way, I am seeking out help for further 'formal' education.  Frankly, I need it, and I can't wait!

May I also ask, how many layers of raffia do you use?  And after the wiring is on, do you apply another layer of raffia on top of the wire?  Seems kinda unnecessary to me....
Thanks John!
Chris
« Last Edit: September 05, 2011, 01:49 AM by Chrisl »