Author Topic: Shimpaku's Initial Styling  (Read 5466 times)

Chrisl

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Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« on: August 26, 2011, 01:08 PM »
I bought this tree at the Midwest show.  Brought it to a Ryan O'neil 'bring your own tree' workshop.  I cleaned it up and created 3 jins.  And got some ideas of where to proceed from Ryan as time ran out.

The first two are after the workshop, the next 2 are after some wiring and PLEASE don't laugh, my rebar to pull the branch downward, but more importantly, the rebar allowed me to pull this forward as well.  I couldn't think of any other way of doing this.  The 6 g. copper wire wasn't doing the trick.  And I didn't have much room to do two runs of the 6 g, esp. room for wire on the rest of the branches.

I still have to wire the tip of that leader to form a pad, as well as wire up all the smaller branches into place and into pads.  I really like where this is going.  I plan to complete the wiring and leave it at that.  Enough trauma's been done this year ;)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:12 PM by Chrisl »
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2011, 01:09 PM »
The other two.  Oh, I made the rebar that big in case I ever want to use it on a larger tree in training.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 01:11 PM by Chrisl »
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 09:44 AM »
Any criticism or ideas?  I'd love to hear what you all think.  You won't hurt my feelings ;))
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 10:03 AM »
I wouldn't do more for now, just allow it to rest and recover.  I would've liked to have seen much more bend in the trunk, perhaps at the spot of the wired jin.  Leaving the strong tip growth is a good idea, to help the branches continue to grow and recover.

Also, what's the rebar for?  It doesn't appear to be doing much.  I would bet you could do the same with wire.
 

coh

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 10:33 AM »
I'll have to take a closer look at the trees later, but my one comment is an easy one - it would be really helpful if you can manage to get a plain  background (either white or black) behind your trees when you take photos - makes it much easier to evaluate the trees themselves. A piece of foam core (from a craft shop) might work in a pinch, or you could drape some fabric behind them. It makes a big difference!

Chris
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 10:55 AM »
John,  I am finished working it this year.  I should've mentioned that when I repot this tree, I'm going to angle it to the right for better trunk movement.  I also wanted to bend the trunk more, but felt I had done enough bending and trauma to the tree this year.  The rebar allowed me to wire the branch much further forward than what I could've done wiring it to the pot.  I tried it and didn't like it.  But, you're prob. right, with enough wire I could've gotten the same result.  But I didn't have room for two runs of 6 g. copper wire, one didn't do it.  And had I run two runs, I wouldn't have had room to wire the rest of the branches.  "Wire Management" is something I have to improve upon.

Chris, I'll track something down.   It's a good idea.

Thanks guys for the feedback, I very much appreciate it!
Chris
 

John Kirby

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 01:39 PM »
I would suggest that next time you use a guy wire to get the bend. For a couple of reasons, one the bend could be much more acute and the tree would be less likely to trip someone innocently walking by. Given that, I agree with Matsu, you will need to bend it more to make it convincing- but you are off to a good start.

John
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 10:36 AM »
Thanks John for the help.  May I ask?  If I used a guy wire, what would I attach the anchoring part of the wire to pull the branch forward and not so much downward?  That's been my conundrum about that branch. 

I'll work on getting the trunk bent more next year.   Thanks for the encouraging remarks John, it's nice to know at least I'm on the right road so to speak.

(btw, I just wanted to say how much I like this forum.  Not a lot of traffic, but also no stupid arguments I've seen on other forums....plus, this forum has a group of fantastic and knowledgable people like John Kirby, Matsu, Coh, and many others.  Even though I'm 'not up to par' in my bonsai skills as everyone else, I've never felt put down or discouraged by my many beginner questions.  So I just wanted to say "Thanks" to all!)

Chris
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 11:50 AM »
John and Matsu,

 I've given more thought to your suggestion to make more of a bend lower down in the trunk near the lowest jin.  I think you both are dead on.  I haven't done anymore work to the tree, but I've been 'testing' the flexibility of that lower trunk...and there isn't any.  The trunk there is about 1 1/2" thick.  How on earth am I going to bend more there next spring/summer?  Would one of these work?
http://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/M226-bonsai-branch-bender.html

The only other idea I had, if this would work?, would be to overtime, with each repotting, bury the trunk into the soil till I get above that small shari.  I could then pot it at a more extreme angle and perhaps have better luck bending the upper trunk in a twist or downward?  I'm just trying to come up with ideas that might work.

Can you guys think of any other way to get some twist or bend to that lower trunk?  I'm thinking far ahead right now as I drew on a piece of paper what I'd like the tree to look like in say 5 yrs. And I don't think I can get what I envisioned on paper.  Besides, if I need a big bender like the above, or even this clamp:  http://www.dallasbonsai.com/store/BB83-bonsai-tool-branch-bender.html
I can add it to my "Xmas Wish List" that I come up with every year lol

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
Chris
 

John Kirby

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 05:25 PM »
You can do it, it involves some lumber, raffia, large wire, rebar, guy wires. gouge/chisel/power tool. thick aluminum wire. Think fulcrum. Sitting in Heathrow, let's see if you can develop a plan. Cheers.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2011, 11:45 AM »
Wow John, that's quite an arsenal! lol  Cutting out a notch on the backside would get that trunk some flexibility.  I'll have to think how I can implement the rest of those methods.  (Just had an idea, I can scour uTube videos and see if there is any on bending the hell out of Shimpakus).  Thanks for the ideas, and for making me use my brain ;))  I remember stuff much better if I think of it myself anyway.   The only problem of using a fulcrum is making sure the tree in the pot is super secure so I don't damage the roots.

Oh, and John, I was lucky enough to track down Larry Jackel's Ponderosa Pine book...Amazon's out, ABS bookstore is out, and I must've gotten one of the last copies from Stone Lantern as it's no longer on their website.  But anyway, I enjoyed the book.  He covers the bases well, and having you and the other 5 bonsai artists give their personal experiences on PP's was brilliant.  And picking artists from various parts of the country was also very smart.  (My only gripe was that he mentioned he sometimes sprays lime sulfur on the plants to prevent disease.  But he didn't mention dilution rates and whether repeated sprays were necessary)  But it's minor.  Anyway, I just wanted to say "Good Job John"!
Chris
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2011, 12:32 PM »
There are a few theads on bending here, too.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2011, 01:35 PM »
Thanks John, I'll do a search and see what I can come up with.  Just by chance, I ran across these three articles on bending:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATBendingThickBranchesOne.htm

I think the part about hallowing out the trunk to be able to add some twist seemed most applicable.
 

MatsuBonsai

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2011, 01:40 PM »
I'm not sure carving or hollowing would be required on something as small as this n
Just some raffia, heavy wire, and a good jack.
 

Chrisl

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Re: Shimpaku's Initial Styling
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 10:06 AM »
Really??  Mine's considered small eh?  Puts things in perspective for me then.  But a jack??  I've used many to change tires, but can't even imagine how to use it to bend/twist trunks.  Unless? I wrap it up in raffia, apply say two runs of 6 g copper, lay the plant on it's side and secure, and then use the jack to manipulate the trunk?  Is this what you had in mind John? Or you mentioned using a fulcrum earlier, again, secure the tree from moving in it's pot/no root damage, and then somehow jury rig the jack, and say some rebar to induce the bend/twist to the trunk?....I'm trying John to develop a plan ;))