Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Evergreen Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Chrisl on May 19, 2012, 09:48 AM

Title: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on May 19, 2012, 09:48 AM
I promised to share my new Pondy that Andy gave to me to replace the one that died.  It's been a little over two weeks and the candles are slowly growing.  It's about 36" tall.  So here are some pics:

Edit:  No matter how I rotate them in Picassa, they still come out sideways.  Sorry!

Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on May 21, 2012, 10:33 AM
No comments?  I'm pretty excited about this tree.  It's more unique, and has a lot more possibilities than my first one imo, but not quite as old.  I'll be getting a substantial RMJ in a mos. or so too.  So I'll have 4 yamadori, and that huge JBP I got from Brussels that I'll consider 'part of my collection' lol  The rest are going to take a long time to develop into something special. 

On another update John, that Shimpaku that I stapled the roots onto the board is thriving as much as the other 9 I have in the ground, some on tiles and some just planted in the ground.   I need to get in there and work on them and apply more wire to the growing shoots.  In 5-10 yrs, they should be pretty cool.

Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Jason E on May 21, 2012, 10:57 AM
Very nice Chris!

Really likr the movement in the trunk, thought about new planting angle? or directions for styling?

J
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: MatsuBonsai on May 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
Looks like you made it half way to Australia. ;)
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on May 21, 2012, 11:49 AM
JMEK, I've been eyeing it over and if I had to style it today, I'd take the first picture above as the front, and tilt the tree to the left about 30-40 degrees so that the one upward straight trunk wouldn't be parallel to the ground but going upward a bit.  Then 'frame' the top branches downward to accentuate the trunk.  I don't know what I'm going to do with that large straight jin at the base of the trunk.  Def. keep it, but not sure of how to carve it to look natural.  I'm not a big fan of small jins right at the base, it to me, stops the eye moving over the tree smoothly. 

Matsu, I have come a long way in a short period.  ;)  After spending sev. hundred dollars on material to young to do much with, I finally decided to spend more money, well a lot more money, on better stock.  So I'll have a small collection of hopefully 'great' trees instead of a backyard filled with trees that won't be much until I'm 75y/o! lol  But in 10 yrs, the in ground material should be workable, and that Trident I got from John and Frank should have the taper and nebari developed to begin working on branch development to also become a very cool tree. 
I have Walter Pall, Jim Doyle, Andy Smith and Brian Van Fleet just to mention a few to Thank for this personal development and encouragement.   And of course, forums like this and BNut where I see trees posted that are so above where I am is also inspiring!
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: MatsuBonsai on May 21, 2012, 08:01 PM
Looks like a nice tree.  Plenty of options with this one.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on May 23, 2012, 12:09 AM
Thanks Matsu.  I agree and have plenty of time to ponder lol  Their ability to be contorted so makes the design possibilities so much greater/more unique for me.

That, and I'm also holding off a yr before touching my new JBP to do the same.  So this summer isn't going to be a big yr. of actual 'bonsai work' it seems.  More so, it's going to be a ''horticultural' yr where the goal is to just keep them thriving and growing. ;)
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: John Kirby on May 23, 2012, 08:25 AM
Chris, I am glad to hear that your stapled Shimpaku is doing well. I look forward to seeing your trees turn in to bonsai, enthusiasm is a big part of the battle.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on May 23, 2012, 10:36 AM
Thanks John, and funny/strange that you mention enthusiasm.  Yest. I volunteered at the Chicago Gardens and got to meet my teachers' sensei from Japan who visiting.   His name is Susumu Nakamura.  He was in his 80's, and worked pretty quietly but did stop to discuss 3 trees we were working on and found his comments and techniques explained to be extremely insightful and great.  After doing what he suggested, all three looked Much Better.  Hi funniest statement was "No taper, no taste" LOL 

And plus, at the end of the day, he told me that I "have a great attitude" and "am obviously am very enthusiastic".  To which he added "which are both important to learning good bonsai".   I got a little embarrassed actually as I wasn't expecting such a nice complement from such a distinguished and experienced gent LOL, so all I could come up with was "Uh...well Thank You!"  LOL 

But I see now when my teacher, in his late 60s, told me last year that "learning bonsai is a never ending learning process", I truly understand what he meant now.

Sorry I digressed a bit, but it was a very exciting time and I learned so much from a man who talked so little LOL
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 27, 2013, 06:13 PM
Very vigorous yr. with many new back buds and strong term. buds.  Ready for first style this coming spring.  I've been playing around with a design.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

Damn, no matter what I do, I can't get the sideview straight.  Aargh. 
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 28, 2013, 09:39 AM
Anyone?
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Judy on January 28, 2013, 09:49 AM
The first one seem almost too upright?  I've no experience with pondys, so I can't really say much more than that...
Seems like some of the best ones are very contorto.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: bwaynef on January 28, 2013, 10:11 AM
Anyone?

Have/would you consider(ed) a semi-cascade?
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 28, 2013, 10:33 AM
Thanks Judy, appreciate any feedback ;)

Wayne, no I haven't considered a semi cascade.  I didn't see that.  I'll play around with it more.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Jason E on January 28, 2013, 10:40 PM
was this one in burlap when you got it? if so how aggressive were you removing the native soil?
just curious.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 29, 2013, 09:46 AM
Yes, burlapped.  I removed about 30-40% per Andy's recommendation.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Jason E on January 29, 2013, 08:28 PM
Cool, I could see it getting layed out to about 45 degrees, then one of your upper branches would be pointed up to make your crown and the bottom one tucked in underneath. If that makes sense?
 Have fun w/ it and post some pics after working. ;)
jason
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 30, 2013, 12:06 AM
That's pretty much the plan I was thinking too Jason.  Andy told me to style it this spring, and then repot again in 2015.  I already kept the box at an angle all summer long last yr., and will again this yr.  Should help getting it in a pot in 2 more yrs.

I'll post some pics after I style it.  This one is going to be done entirely by me.  I'm feeling more confident and feel it's time to try on my own. 
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Judy on January 30, 2013, 07:34 AM
Good for you.  Just take your time, step away during the process, and take a break.  Come back and look with fresh eyes.  Works for me...
J
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: bwaynef on January 30, 2013, 09:33 AM
Have/would you consider(ed) a semi-cascade?

Wayne, no I haven't considered a semi cascade.  I didn't see that.  I'll play around with it more.

Here's a rough virt to show what I'm talking about.  I imagine there's a little movement there that I can't easily use in the virt, but I'd like it better if I could've rolled the tree ...on it's current axis, away from the viewer.  I think that would present nicely.  Also, I think the trunk should be compressed a little so that its not quite so long.

Regardless, here's a crude virt to give you an idea of what I see in this material.  (Potting it at that angle is an exercise for the ...owner. :) )
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 30, 2013, 10:50 AM
Thanks Judy, I sure will take my time!

Wayne, Not a bad virt.  But wouldn't it look better if if that first curve of the trunk goes upward instead of downward?
And I really agree, the tree needs to be compacted quite a bit.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: bwaynef on January 30, 2013, 10:59 AM
Wayne, Not a bad virt.  But wouldn't it look better if if that first curve of the trunk goes upward instead of downward?

That's part of what I'd hope rolling it would do.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on January 30, 2013, 11:07 AM
Ah!  Now I understand what you were saying lol  Not sure that's possible though...
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Leo in NE Illinois on February 16, 2013, 12:27 PM
I had a thought. If you are not in a hurry, the trunk and most of the primary branches can be used, but the distance to the secondary branching is a bit long. Needles are long. What about grafting a shorter needled pine branches onto the ponderosa? If you had a stock plant around of the super short needled Japanese Black Pine cultivar. Or maybe P. sylvestris. I think P. mugo would also take, but there are issues working with mugo you might not want to take on. Heck, you could even graft on Japanese White pine. No reason not to try. Can you tell I took a grafting class last year? This week all bonsai issues look like they could be solved with grafting.  ;D

You will get some sparse back budding on wood less than a decade old with good fertilizing over a couple years, but rarely will the buds be exactly where you need them.

I have been warned to not work the Ponderosa's too hard until you are getting candles that turn into thick bushy fox tails of growth much like a JBP. If you are still getting only a few new whorls of needle bundles out of the new buds, the tree isn't established yet. Go gentle. My 100+ year old ponderosa  from Andy took a good 5 years to get rolling. Now it seems indestructible.

Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on February 16, 2013, 01:50 PM
I had a thought. If you are not in a hurry, the trunk and most of the primary branches can be used, but the distance to the secondary branching is a bit long. Needles are long. What about grafting a shorter needled pine branches onto the ponderosa? If you had a stock plant around of the super short needled Japanese Black Pine cultivar. Or maybe P. sylvestris. I think P. mugo would also take, but there are issues working with mugo you might not want to take on. Heck, you could even graft on Japanese White pine. No reason not to try. Can you tell I took a grafting class last year? This week all bonsai issues look like they could be solved with grafting.  ;D

You will get some sparse back budding on wood less than a decade old with good fertilizing over a couple years, but rarely will the buds be exactly where you need them.

I have been warned to not work the Ponderosa's too hard until you are getting candles that turn into thick bushy fox tails of growth much like a JBP. If you are still getting only a few new whorls of needle bundles out of the new buds, the tree isn't established yet. Go gentle. My 100+ year old ponderosa  from Andy took a good 5 years to get rolling. Now it seems indestructible.



Hi Leo, and Thanks for chiming in.  I've got two Pondys now, this one and another styled for the first time last winter.  So I'm still at the very early stages of development.  I'm going to take a wait and see attitude re. finished needle length.  I maybe happy with the final reduction size on a tree this size, but the second smaller one might indeed need some other kind of needle to be convincing.  I just don't know yet, but feel there's no rush.  I've got yrs. of ramification work ahead of me.

This one Ponderosa has full tufted out candles, and tons of backbudding.  It's very established.  And all it got last yr. was very heavy feeding, hence the long needles.  I think my second one didn't do quite as well despite being in a pot 2 yrs longer is b/c it's in soil with broken down pumice and some sand too, I couldn't fertilize nearly as much as it retains way too much moisture.  I'm going to repot it out of it's 3g. nursery container to a small box while not touching the roots.  This spring, I'm just going to gently wash away the broken down substrate, situate the roots, and pot it up. 
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on April 18, 2013, 07:10 PM
Been out of country much of the spring, and multiple illnesses kept me having done little so far to my trees.  Though it's been really unusually cold here so trees are just starting off.  But anyway, I found these pine cone buds all over this Ponderosa.  I know I need to cut these off, but much do I need to remove?  Like, how close to the new candle?  I should've done this much earlier.

I was hoping to style it this earlier this spring, but alas.  I now just going to wait now till buds have set later this summer as there's ton's of new buds and backbuds I don't want to disturb. 
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: John Kirby on April 18, 2013, 07:17 PM
Take them off with your fingers. Really, a little twist and voila.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Markyscott on April 18, 2013, 08:48 PM
Ponderosa don't do too well in my area, so I'm not as familiar with them.  What you've photographed, however, looks like pollen buds to me.  I typically don't worry about those.  Just pull the cone buds - they should appear at the end of extending candles and are initially red or purple in color.

Scott
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on April 19, 2013, 09:59 AM
Thanks guys!  Easy enough!  So Thanks for the advice!!

Chris
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on October 07, 2013, 11:19 AM
Well, it took me over a wk, but I finally styled this pine.  To deal with the T branch, I wrapped raffia, copper splines, raffia, and no. 6 wire.  This and a 4' rebar and this bent like it was spaghetti lol  The wiring is much better done, but still looks messy in some areas.  Still need more work ;)  All I need now is to jin a branch or two to compliment the trunks shari.  Just not sure where/which branches.
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: october on October 07, 2013, 03:15 PM
Very impressive! This tree has entered a whole new level of aesthetics.

Rob
Title: Re: Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza
Post by: Chrisl on October 07, 2013, 08:02 PM
Thank You Rob, that means a lot coming from you!  If I can get the growth rate to continue as it's been, this tree could be show ready in 5-7yrs....mainly, ramification, needle size and some deadwood work.