Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Evergreen Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Joshua Hanzman on September 29, 2013, 07:36 PM

Title: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 29, 2013, 07:36 PM
Hello all! My name is Joshua, and I am a bonsai addict. Here are some eastern white cedar I recently collected, please let me know what you think as far as styling options or good/bad points you notice in these trees, thanks all!

The last photo is another cedar i collected as I had only take three photos of the other one. It is one of my favorites and I have similar informal upright cedars that I would like to make into a five tree forest, this tree has over a 4 inch diameter at its base, and a nice taper.
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 29, 2013, 07:51 PM
Ugh, I'm sorry for flooding the forum 2 hours into joining, but I've been chomping at the bit to post these pictures, so here is another one of my cedar that really throws me off on figuring out how to design it. I'm thinking clump style, or raft style, it has this piece of deadwood on the base that really stand out. It also has five distinct trunks/branches growing up. So I'm thinking to do a raft style, but maybe with the deadwood straight up it could be a completely different tree than what I'm seeing, let me know what you think... This tree is so difficult to portray in pictures jeez, maybe a video is in order? Please, let me know if you feel like you understand what the this tree looks like from these pictures, if not ill try to post more or a video...
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: october on September 29, 2013, 08:10 PM
The pics are very small. However, from what I can see, both trees look to be very nice with good potential. Also, it is important to let the trees rest for 2-3 years after collecting. If you try to work on these before that time, it could stress them further and you may lose them.

Rob
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 30, 2013, 12:16 AM
Thanx Rob, I appreciate your advice, I definitely will be waiting. Anyways next season I have tons of other material to work on, so I'm not that anxious to work on these. Having been a mass murderer of all of my best material early on (lucky pre-collecting days), I have definitely learned to be patient and wait...

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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Owen Reich on September 30, 2013, 08:46 AM
I think the best course of action would be just to mail me the first one  ;D. If you're locating that quality of material starting out, you're doing well.  Be sure and look over the aftercare threads here and like October said, don't rush the styling.  Where are you located?  This is important for others here to provide feedback.
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: tmmason10 on September 30, 2013, 12:45 PM
I agree these look like good trees but hard to tell with the tiny pics. We want tiny trees not tiny pics.
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 30, 2013, 09:37 PM
Haha thanks both of you, I figured out my issues with pictures so I will be reposting these, and yes I know a place that has tons of really good white cedar, I'm located in central Jersey, the trees are 13 hours away north... Owen I believe we met at MABS, I roamed around with my gf @ the time Lauren, you were very gracious towards us!

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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 30, 2013, 11:32 PM
the pictures resized

Owen, just for fun, what would you do with the one you said you like? besides have it have mailed to yourself ha
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on September 30, 2013, 11:40 PM
The other tree, this one throws me off design wise, it has 5 trunks growing off a piece of deadwood that looks like a wave with a scimitar coming off the end.
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Herman on October 01, 2013, 12:55 AM
Wow I like the one you posted in pics 1.2 to 1.4 ;D it has a lot of interesting features!
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Owen Reich on October 01, 2013, 01:05 AM
Sure, I remember the MABS event.  The thick "old apex" would likely need to go.  Tree needs a while to fill out.  Live vein definition will matter but a slant style might be nice.  I'm going to be up for Mid-Atlantic next year.  Shovel ready. 
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Owen Reich on October 01, 2013, 08:51 AM
Jpeg 2 is a nice angle.
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 01, 2013, 12:30 PM
Awesome, thanx fellas! I want to jin that second looking apex on the twirly one, pics 1.1-1.3, also want to accentuate the curve by making Shari around it, where do you think the Shari should be, outside the curve? Inside the curve? So Shari about the tangent to the curve leading to the jinned second apex? What do you guys think?

Owen what do you mean by shovel ready, you going/wanna collect then?

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Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 01, 2013, 12:35 PM
Owen the informal upright you are talking about I was thinking about making into a forest with 2 or 4 others that are similar styled ( all informal.upright)  but drastically different in taper and movement. I think it would make a great forest, I'll post all the different trees here so I could get your advise...

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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 02, 2013, 12:11 AM
Hey here is my idea for the forest i told mentioned, made a virt, and it was a really good learning experience, seeing how the different types of triangles (I used green triangles to apply foliage) and direction the triangles were facing affected the look of the tree was really profound.

The 1st picture is one of me actually trying to physically put together the forest. Then the next is the trunk only, I took pictures of each individual tree from the exact same spot and cropped out the trunks only and then the last picture is me applying triangles of green to fill it in. If anyone has an idea of how this forest could be changed, let me know...

The last picture is a twin trunk hinoki I'm thinking about chopping off the small trunk to make a literati out of the nice trunk.
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Owen Reich on October 03, 2013, 11:23 PM
A forest or grove might be nice but hard to tell.  BNut has a ton of traffic and you will certainly get responses quickly there.  This forum has a lot of "Lurkers" and you know who you are....  Many people seem to want to use this forum as a resource and choose to view without commenting.  With your interest level so high, going to events and local bonsai suppliers often should help.

As for collecting, I'd love to go.  PM me as I'll be up for MABS in NJ next year.

Here's a white cedar from the IBS Convention in '99.  I'm helping a client find a home for it.
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Neli on October 04, 2013, 12:47 PM
Can you try to exchange the smallest tree with the back tree and see how it will look like?
Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Larry Gockley on October 04, 2013, 03:59 PM
Can't help but notice you said they were collected "recently". Recent can be a relative term depending  on if you are watching the grass grow, or holding your breath, ;D. Were they collected this summer, and is that common in your area?
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 04, 2013, 06:03 PM
Larry they were collected this summer and that is common for the person who I collected with, he has collected in October according to him, and of the hundreds he's collected, he claims to have lost one...

Neli, I will mess around with the tree you mentioned later today on my computer, and see how that looks. If you don't mind, would you tell me why aesthetically you think that will work better?

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Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 04, 2013, 06:45 PM
Owen, as far as my comments about the forum, I was asked and so really was being nitpicky, all forums really have the same issues imho. But I prefer this forum to Bnut. I have a pet peeve of seeing 300 views and no comments but in the same sentence I really do like this forum and just wanted to supplement my bonsai information.... I read a lot and would like to havmore bonsai at my fingertip s


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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Owen Reich on October 04, 2013, 10:35 PM
I understand.  I'm expressing my views being nit-picky as well.  I am here to help in part because i felt around in the dark of Internet information and messed up some trees quickly when I started and found. Most books to be a waste of time and money.  Funny that you want more....  Until recently you had to use a card catalog to find the two books the library had on the subject  ;D

Check out the blog Bonsai Tonight by Jonas Dupich.
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Neli on October 05, 2013, 04:09 AM
Larry they were collected this summer and that is common for the person who I collected with, he has collected in October according to him, and of the hundreds he's collected, he claims to have lost one...

Neli, I will mess around with the tree you mentioned later today on my computer, and see how that looks. If you don't mind, would you tell me why aesthetically you think that will work better?

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It will give the illusion of perspective. Smaller trees are always placed behind in a forest, for this reason. Then it looks like that tree is far in the distance while in reality is very near.
This composition has good perspective
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 05, 2013, 10:55 PM
Owen, right on the money with that blog! Exactly what I was looking for, what a great resource, six or seven posts in I saw a great photo progression on thinning out a procumbens, is that the same way I would thin out a Chinese juniper?

Neli, that is a great example of depth in a forest, I can just see a tiny herd of elephants grazing in the distance... I'm gonna make the change and repost the forest, let me know what you think...

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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: bwaynef on October 06, 2013, 08:24 AM
If anyone has an idea of how this forest could be changed, let me know...

In the virt, the trunks look pretty equidistant relative to each other.  Also, the right tree leaning back into the forest doesn't seem natural.
Title: Re: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on October 06, 2013, 01:37 PM
I know what you mean, those sharp angles seemed man made and contrived but it's not. I'm not sure what to do with that tree, I was thinking about turning further to the right to try to soften that right angle, not much more I can think of with that ninety degree turn...

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Title: Re: newly collected eastern white cedar
Post by: Joshua Hanzman on April 02, 2014, 10:39 PM
I built a box for this forest today, and will be slip-potting them in there just to begin their roots forming together.

Inasmuch, I wanted to make final decisions on the placement of them, and would kindly ask your help again. Everything you all told was very helpful and I took your advice. I placed the thicker ones to the front and the thinner to the rear to maximize the perception of depth.

Bwaynef I think they look equidistant from each other because they were in pots next to each other and restricted from moving exactly where I would have liked them too. Also do you really think that bend look unnatural in a negative way? The tree came like that from the mountain and I kinda like it but maybe need to understand why it is a negative...


I will take pics tomorrow and post them up, until then here is another eastern white I wired yesterday...