Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Evergreen Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: pwk5017 on May 16, 2012, 10:48 PM

Title: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: pwk5017 on May 16, 2012, 10:48 PM
I was fortunate enough to pick this tree up at a local club meeting for a price that I almost couldnt pass up.  It has its flaws, but I definitely see a pretty good tree out of this one.  The series of overall shots are of the tree being rotated counter-clockwise. First, which do you like for a front? Pic one is most likely the chosen front of the previous owner. All the branches grow out towards the viewer with this front, but the tree slopes away from you.  The flow of the trunk and tree is pleasing from this view. The more I look at the tree, the more I dig pic 4.  It is the complete opposite view of pic 1.  This front has the best nebari, you see more of the trunk.  The tree leans towards you. However, the trunk chop is visible from this view, and it certainly isnt going anywhere in the next 7-10 years.  More to come...
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: pwk5017 on May 16, 2012, 10:51 PM
Ok, a couple more shots of the tree being rotated counter-clockwise from the original photo.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: pwk5017 on May 16, 2012, 11:01 PM
Alright, last post. These photos show the biggest flaws of the tree. I might also add that this is my first scots pine.  I prefer JBP, but they are next to impossible to find in the Pittsburgh region.  Actually, alot of people seem to love scots pines on the east coast, so maybe this tree will be the moment I switch over to the species. This being said, I do not know the nitty gritty details of how this species is treated.  I understand they sort of like jbp, but not really.  Some decandle like jbp, and others say thats a terrible idea.  I certainly have some reading up to do, and if anyone has a thread they would like to share, please do.  Ok, you can see someone did not properly prune and ramify some of the branches.  This branch tip whorl is an example that can be found in atleast 2 other areas on the tree. Correcting areas like this goes back to understanding how the species reacts and grows.  I know with jbp it would be quite easy to nurture a couple buds behind this growth and then cut it back a year or two after the young buds had matured.  Is it worth it to go back and regrow alot of the branch ramification on this tree?  I have never undertaken a process like this before so I am open to opinions. Finally, what to do with that trunk chop?  It really is only visible from the one side, and if that is not the front chosen, then the viewer would rarely see it.  Any tips on inducing faster healing?  I am thinking about opening the cambium around the scar and covering with cut paste to facilitate more/better healing.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Alain Bertrand on May 17, 2012, 02:25 AM
Very very nice tree.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: John Kirby on May 17, 2012, 06:56 AM
 agree, very nice.  A little wire and wow!
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: mcpesq817 on May 17, 2012, 09:28 AM
Wow, that's a great scots pine.  Nice score  ;D
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: nathanbs on May 17, 2012, 09:56 AM
ditto what everyone else said. From the photos I agree with you on picture number 4, great movement and overall character from that angle. The scar doesnt bother me much at all.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Jay on May 17, 2012, 11:19 AM
NICE tree...... I have to agree, the fourth view (at least in 2d) is by far the best. You got yourself a great little tree.
Jay
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Chrisl on May 17, 2012, 11:25 AM
Yes, that is a nice tree.  And I also like the 4th pic.  Continuing the shari from the scar would look fine on an old tree like this imo.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: MatsuBonsai on May 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
Do yo know the variety?  Looks like very short needles already. I would not treat like JBP.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: pwk5017 on May 17, 2012, 01:35 PM
No clue on the variety.  The tree is 30-34" high from the soil with a 5.5-6" trunk above the nebari.  I think the needles are almost too short.  I wouldnt mind having them lengthen a little more.  I wasnt planning on treating it like a jbp, but I am unsure of how to treat it.  Mind giving me a short run down on scots pine refinement techniques? Do you just pinch the candles as the elongate in the spring?  I would like to achieve some backbudding this year because I want to refine the branch structure a bit.

Thanks for all the comments! I am pretty pumped about this one. Its nice that #4 was a unanimous winner.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: MatsuBonsai on May 17, 2012, 07:13 PM
I would probably treat it like 5-needle pine.

Wiring and some light thinning will allow light and air into the interior.  That, combined with plenty of fertilizer and water should yield some back budding.

For energy balance you can pinch strong growth in early spring (mid April here).  Water and fertilizer can be withheld in spring to control needle length, when the tree reaches that stage.  Fertilize heavy in fall.

Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: bwaynef on May 18, 2012, 11:18 AM
Looks like very short needles already. I would not treat like JBP.
I would probably treat it like 5-needle pine.

Why would you NOT treat it like JBP?  Scots have 2 needles after all.  Is it because the needles are already short and much of the regimen of JBP care is in an effort to create short needles?
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: John Kirby on May 18, 2012, 12:54 PM
Wayne,
Scots Pines are tough, really tough and have many of the attributes of other mountain or high latitude pines. One of those attributes is a more careful growth pattern. Since they don't grow as aggressively as a JBP the absolute need to restrict, rechannel, growth is generally not needed, so treating like a JWP with candle breaking and delaying fertilizer til later in the season can produce excellent results- even in areas with fairly long growing seasons. These trees tend to back bud really well on young to middle aged branches, so many of the things that you need decandling for in JBP are manageable bu other means in Scots Pine.

I have decandled one, it really didn't like it- it might have been my timing was too late, the tree, etc., but I haven't tried it again. I will style it this summer and see how it responds. John
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Dirk on July 10, 2012, 03:11 PM
Hi all,

I think this is a great pine.
As to how to care for it: Scots pines can be decandled, rather early in spring and not every year! Much controlling of growth is done by budselection in winter and breaking overlong candles.
Some let a Scots pine grow all spring and summer and prune back all summers growth in early winter. This causes a lot of backbudding.
A healthy Scots pine can be almost as vigorous as a JBP.
With Yamadori Scots (and Mugo) Pines, very small needles might indicate that a tree is not very well established

Dirk
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Adair M on July 11, 2012, 12:24 AM
Very nice pine!  View 4 gets my vote, too. I'm not crazy about the pot.

I don't like it being off center in a "round" pot.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Tom Mounce on July 11, 2012, 07:50 PM
Very nice trunk, you should be able to look up Julian Adams and find out some info on the Scots.

Tom
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Elliott on July 26, 2012, 01:12 PM
Hi
 again. nice tree. Pic 4 and pic 3 on the second set is your front in my opinion. best nebari, movement, interest and lean of the trunk.
 A small amount of carving on the chop would enhance the tree. You can carve on the branch stub lower down in a similar way or even connect the 2 with a thin shari.
 If you don't want any deadwood, you can slightly elongate that chop longitudinally, and let it grow wild a couple of years, and it may heal, but why bother? and old pine in the forest is gonna have some war stories, why shouldn't yours?
 If you go to some of the European forums, you will find more info on Scott's pine than you can read in a year. Try bonsai ejit or ireland bonsai society website.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Elliott on July 26, 2012, 01:21 PM
try europeanbonsai.freeforums.org for Scott's pine info. (moderator, I apologise if posting about another board gives you any competition) ::)
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: paulpash on January 13, 2013, 12:35 PM
Hans Van Meer's article is very good :)

http://www.karamotto.org/?page=40 (http://www.karamotto.org/?page=40)
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: BSG Moderator on January 13, 2013, 03:30 PM
(moderator, I apologise if posting about another board gives you any competition) ::)

We know other boards exist.  If the link is useful to our members, post it. 

ps.  If you're here to spam your interests ...go away.  (This is a generality, not directed at you Elliott.)
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: John Kirby on January 13, 2013, 05:44 PM
Glad this one popped back up.

Dirk, if you are saying that Scots Pines are as vigorous as JBP in the Netherlands, OK. If you live in a warm place, no. They can grow  fast, but they certainly sulk when treated as harshly as we treat JBP.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Dirk on January 14, 2013, 12:26 AM
John,

That is exactly what I said. It's not as strong as jbp. But comes close.

Dirk.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: Dirk on January 22, 2013, 01:16 AM
John (and others)

I must correct my previous reply to John.
Yes, you can decandle scotts pine for balancing it. this means automatically heavy feeding. No, you can't decandle
late summer. In the Netherlands decandling till the end of may can be oke. Once balanced you
don't want to decandle and heavy feed a scots pine. You don't need so much backbudding anymore
and you need the new growth to be elegant and fine.
Scotts pine isn't as strong and vigorous as JBP. Can be decandeld for energy balancing. But not
every year and not in the refining stage.
Treating a refined scots as a white pine would be save.
Title: Re: New Scots Pine Acquisition
Post by: John Kirby on January 22, 2013, 08:29 AM
Dirk. I think you have hit it right on.