Author Topic: mugo  (Read 22099 times)

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: mugo
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2014, 09:06 PM »
Izk_zero,
I am impressed that you can grow mugo pines in the Arkansas river valley. Have you been able to move them to bonsai pots? I never could in NW Arkansas.
 

Sorce

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 789
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: mugo
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 04:56 AM »
M  y understanding is Boon is a great teacher. It shows.
U  nfortunately, I can not get to an intensive.
G  oing to Michigan would be easier. ( surviving the D even!)
O  dd that "Mr. One Liner" hasn't thrown one in. C'mon Vance!

P  erfecting Mugo technique is Vances thing.
I  ndeed very different from JBP. Different as MI and CA!
N  o club is perfect. This forum is better for me!
E  veryone should have a great teacher. Adair = Son of Thunder!
S  orce.
       


 

Adair M

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
  • Thanked: 6 times
Re: mugo
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2014, 07:58 AM »
LOL!!

Very good, Sorce!

I've never had any luck with Mugos. All I ever had died, and the nursery stock trees all had reverse taper at the whorles.

JBP does far better in our climate, here in Georgia. From what I understand, our climate is very similar to southern Japan where JBP are native.

Vance is successful with Mugo in Michigan, which makes sense, it's a Northern European tree.

Bill Valavanis says its hard for him to grow JBP in Rochester because of the climate there. He prefers to work with Scots Pine.

I think one of the keys to success in bonsai is to work with species that will thrive in your climate.
 

Sorce

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 789
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: mugo
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2014, 09:24 PM »
Oh hell no. ! Kermit of death!   Shouldve stayed  :-X

I absolutely agree with material in YOUR climate. That why I try and collect everything.

Sorce
 

Leo in NE Illinois

  • Sr. Forum Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Thanked: 9 times
Re: mugo
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2014, 01:24 PM »
I have in the past always found mugo a problem - all my attempts with nursery material have died - but with each I learned something new. I will try mugo again in the future. The most often repeated advise from Vance is that mugos really need full sun for the entire day to get good growth (picking the 'right spot' in my shady yard is a problem) and to only work the trees in the summer, when in active growth and to only work mugos once a year, then leave them recover for 12 months minimum is the best advice.

Vance is the one to give me the best advise I have ever received on northern pine species - mugo in particular, but from observing the results of his techniques - mostly the differences in timing of when techniques are performed - I think he really has the keys to using any single growth flush northern or high elevation pine. I think his techniques could also be applied to P. banksiana, the Jack Pine. The short needles and cold tolerance of Jack Pine suggest it could be a good bonsai candidate also. I have one Jack pine seedling in process, we will see how it does.

Not all clubs are good mixes for all personalities - I live equidistant between Chicago and Milwaukee, ended up a member of both clubs but spend most of my time with Milwaukee just because it is a better 'fit' for my personality. I need the "human contact" to encourage me to stay on track with my trees, and I get that from the club I chose. The enthusiasm of others rubs off, and gets me out in the yard working my trees. This is good. My two teachers over the years are Ted Mattson and currently Peter Tea. Both are well respected professionals, and I find I have to quietly & politely reject advice on techniques from others if their suggestions conflict with advice from my teachers. I also find I have to remind myself to double check any ideas on technique from the internet, including here. Though on BSI the quality of advice has been much higher quality than some other forums (lower "reject" rate) which is also good.

Right now I am keeping an eye out for a nice piece of Mugo nursery stock, to give it another try. Maybe by this time next year I'll have a mugo to post.
 

GBHunter

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
  • I am hobbist magician. I have over 20 hobbies :-)
Re: mugo
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2014, 02:22 PM »
I have never had problems with Mugo pine dieing on my I just could not get them to do what I needed so they were given away or thrown out. Now I have a green mound mugo and will try to coax it to grow.
 

Sorce

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 789
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: mugo
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2014, 05:22 AM »
After killing a big box mugo this year, I found one at The Hidden Garden (nice place) that was about half the needle size labeled truedwarf? Or something.

Maybe will try that next year. Maybe will drop $200 on a RMJ.  :)

Sorce
 

izk_zero

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • personal text
Re: mugo
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2014, 10:40 AM »
hey John K.,

I really have had good luck with them. In fact there are about 10 planted in front of a bank in the town where I grew up. Were you thinking it would be too warm or wet here in Arkansas? That is one reason I haven't yet tried my luck with japanese white pine.
 

VanceWood

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: mugo
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2014, 09:40 PM »
Vance is in the local club here. The one that Boon and others told me to stay clear of or I would pick up bad information and bonsai habits.

Are you serious Paul???


Paul C.
 

VanceWood

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: mugo
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2014, 09:47 PM »
Oh c'mon Mike, aren't you a bit exaggerating?  I've been on this board for a couple yrs now I guess, and bnut, and I don't share your experience at all.  Plus, you do realize, many of his students are here incl. John?  I'm not with Boon, but nevertheless found your post somewhat insulting.  Sorry, but I'm getting a bit tired of people dissing Boon and his students. 

But it's OK for him and his students to dis other people?  You seem my friend to be exercising a double standard.  Personally the fact that Boon considers me significant enough to comment on my existence is a sort of compliment.  Personally I have nothing against Boon but I do have difficulties with his students.
 

VanceWood

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: mugo
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2014, 09:58 PM »
I have some photos but for whatever reason they dont post. I will keep working on it. I was treated badly by the members. I did not care what their trees look like, I just repeat what I was told, its just their opinion anyway so who cares. But the way the members behaved was not an opinion.

I keep hearing that you were treated badly by the President or the members of the club.   Being a member of that club for well over twenty-years I would really like to hear what happened, the circumstances and the people involved.  If the club has a problem I want to help solve it.  You can send me a PM if you like.  However if you are not willing to say what happened I think it might be a good idea to put a lid on it.  However in the meantime I plan on finding out what really did happen and post the details.
 

VanceWood

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: mugo
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2014, 10:12 PM »
I really don't know why I should respond to the insults undeserved but I will give this little bit of information.  I have traveled all over the Rocky Mountains and the Desert South West this last summer and have found Mugo Pines cultivated in gardens all over the place, even in Texas.  In areas where they have extreme summer and winter conditions and they do fine.  Most of you guys have problems with them because you absolutely refuse to realize they have to be treated different than JBP.  It is not because the tree does not convert to bonsai culture.  I argue this; if the Mugo can survive the nursery trade in your area it is not the Mugo's fault they cannot survive your attempts to make them into a bonsai.
 

bwaynef

  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Thanked: 33 times
  • USDA Zone: 8a
Re: mugo
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2014, 04:39 PM »
Personally the fact that Boon considers me significant enough to comment on my existence is a sort of compliment.  Personally I have nothing against Boon but I do have difficulties with his students.

I think you're misreading what's been said. 
 

VanceWood

  • Jr. Forum Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
Re: mugo
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2014, 04:45 PM »
Personally the fact that Boon considers me significant enough to comment on my existence is a sort of compliment.  Personally I have nothing against Boon but I do have difficulties with his students.

I think you're misreading what's been said. 

Really:  following is a copy of each of these comments.  How would you take them if pointed at you or the organization you have been associated with many years?

Aug 21

Vance is in the local club here. The one that Boon and others told me to stay clear of or I would pick up bad information and bonsai habits.

I was in that club for a year and was very disappointed(I will avoid specifics but there are reasons) thats when I talked to Boon and onthers and was advised not to join it. Everyone recommended the Ann Arbor bonsai club.

Aug 23

Boon was an afterthought.  I already did not like this club for my reasons plus Boon was not the only one. I am not saying your experience will be thesame as mine. I was unhappy there and left I did not like the way I was treated, talked to the ppresident of the club to let him know why im leaving. I was very disappointed at the excuse I was given for the members behavior and left. Never looked back. Im not following Boon like a mindles drone its just what he said was true in my experience.

Aug 24

I left the club because I did not care for the way I was being treated! Not because anyone told me not to join. AFTER that incident Boon and others stated they knew the club and have students in Michigan that leveled the same complaints I did. So YES these people where there and yes they did not like it and yes former members have stated the same objections to the club that I did. Mine were a bit more personal but similar. Please do not put type in my message where there was none. It was a person that was a member of said club that went to train with other masters and they could not believe how badly he was trained. These people have also gone to the Bonsai show and one of these people said "if thats the kind of plants you want to make then this is the club for you! But if you are looking for real bonsai then check this club out(they would give me a card). I dont care if you have a good experience,  I know that I was not welcome there!

Aug 26

I have some photos but for whatever reason they dont post. I will keep working on it. I was treated badly by the members. I did not care what their trees look like, I just repeat what I was told, its just their opinion anyway so who cares. But the way the members behaved was not an opinion.




 

John Kirby

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
  • Thanked: 16 times
  • I really need an opposable thumb...
Re: mugo
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2014, 06:51 PM »
Vance,
Not sure what the point is. if I remember correctly most of the issues for you with a Boon student revolved around Mr. Heath, not bonsai.

Mugo pines didn't work well for us in Arkansas, glad to hear they work well for others in the south. I never wasted my time trying them in Bonsai culture because we couldn't get 5 years out of them in the irrigated landscape. Besides that I wasn't going to waste my time on big box nursery stock, where mugos wete sold.

Mugos do well here in CT. We are using species in containers to play with the species. I would be more interested if I could get collected trees. While I haven't seen any North American Mugos that I really like, the collected trees in Europe can be spectacular.

Sorry you are angry.