Bonsai Study Group Forum

General Category => Evergreen Bonsai Discussion => Topic started by: Chrisl on April 20, 2012, 04:54 PM

Title: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 20, 2012, 04:54 PM
I got this tree from Brussels after looking around this spring.  Just arrived yesterday.  The trunk is as wide as a coke can at the base.  It's got fantastic nebari, trunk movement, close branching and aged bark and large trunk.  This is the kind of tree I'm going to be getting in the future, where I can finish it in 5-10yrs.   Here's some pics.

Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 20, 2012, 04:57 PM
This keeps happening.  These are properly oriented in Picassa, but when I load them, they are rotated.  If I rotate it in Picassa, it still is not upright.  So sorry about the sideway photos. 
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on April 20, 2012, 05:22 PM
Is it just the camera angle or shadow, or is there some reverse taper up around the second branch?
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 20, 2012, 05:53 PM
There's no reverse taper, just bad photographer  ::)  Plus, the barks also darker because of that black mildew.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: John Kirby on April 20, 2012, 07:28 PM
Interesting project. I will be interested to see how you work this tree. Your time frame certainly seems to be reasonable. YOUR PLAN?
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on April 20, 2012, 07:39 PM
Glad there's no reverse taper!  You'll have fun with that.  I'm assuming you have Boon's JBP DVD series.

Wow, those candles have really extended.  I'm in the NE Ga mountains, so I guess my elevation has slowed my JBP candles down a little.  Memphis must be ahead of us.  My needles are 3/4 inch on one tree and 1/2 inch on the other.  Seeing where yours are on that tree, I'd say it's too late to pot.

Be sure and post lots of pics!  I have a thread going "Transforming a JBP bush to bonsai" (or something like that) that I started last fall.  With a tree that looked about as bushy as yours.  Then it looked like Charlie Brown's Christmas tree when it was pruned, needle pulled, and wired.

But it's back budding like crazy!  Once the buds actually produce some needles, I'll update that thread, but for now, have fun figuring out what you're going to do with yours! Decisions, decisions!
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 21, 2012, 07:42 AM
Adair, I do have those dvds.  They're very good.  And I too was surprised at how large the candles have extended compared to the ones I've seen around here.  Way ahead!

John, my plan is next year do the initial styling:  picking the front, the planting angle, the primary branching, the sacrificial branches to be left on and forming a new apex.  I'll also start that summer of candle cutting for even growth and continue this on out. Year 2:  Probably style it again making it more compact.  Year 3 repot.  It's got great growth right now, and I don't want to loose the trees' vigor/momentum after the first two stylings.  And then on year 4 and on, continuing refining branching and pad development.

That's the plan so far John.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on April 21, 2012, 08:34 AM

Is it in the typcal nurseryman's bark/sand mix?  Or does Brussel's use something better?

I bought my little JWP from Brussel's, and their "bonsai soil" still had quite a bit of bark in it.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: MatsuBonsai on April 21, 2012, 08:39 AM
Not sure I would recommend waiting quite so long to work on the roots (or get it out of Brussel's soil).
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 21, 2012, 05:59 PM
Yes Adair and Matsu, the soil is just a dark soil mix.  It's so healthy I thought I could wait to repot it.  So do you guys think I should repot into Pumice now?
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on April 21, 2012, 08:05 PM

Hopefully some SOB will give you a good answer to that.  I repotted my big JBP project yesterday.  I really wasn't going to do a full repot, but it became one because once I got in there and saw how badly the circling roots were, I knew it was going to take a while to develop nebari, so I had to get started right away. 

If yours has decent nebari, then it's not as critical to "fix" anything like I had to do.  Of course, you're going to want to eventually get it into an inorganic mix for the long term health of the tree, but there's probably no rush.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: MatsuBonsai on April 22, 2012, 04:58 PM
Already a lot of growth this year.  I would probably repot next spring.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 22, 2012, 07:27 PM
Those were my thoughts too Matsu, Thanks!
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on March 15, 2013, 01:01 PM

Well, I had a vacation to Australia for 2 wks., fantastic if you ever get a chance to go btw.  But came back to all my deciduous trees budding out.  Still going below freezing at night time.  Only the lg. trident I have needs a smaller pot (bummer on this one, I found this last fall alot of rot behind the bark at the base of the tree.  I've cleaned it out, but I'm not sure on the long term now on this tree.  It'll live, but maybe ugly depending upon recovery) 

This JBP needs a repot as we discussed in the emergency black pine thread.  But I believe I have time to wait as I  don't see much new growth or color change.  Same for my smaller Ponderosa Pine.  It is extr. healthy, but needs to be in new soil too.  So I'm planning on doing the same, only half the root mass to be worked on.

I do have one question though?  Since I'm only working half the root mass, should I pot them back into the 5 and 3 gal nursery pots they are in now, or move them to Anderson flats?  I'm pretty sure the one half remaining that I don't reduce in the large JBP in the 5gal pot WON'T fit in an Anderson flat.  I could just cut the 5 gal by a third and prob. be able to get it in.  Thoughts anyone?

Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on March 15, 2013, 01:25 PM

You'll be working more than 1/2 the roots.

First off, you don't need the full depth of what it's in now.  When you get it out of the big black plastic pot, take a saw and cut off the bottom half.  If you plan on changing the potting angle, this is a good time to start.  Cut it so it's flat at the angle you're going to use.  You'll be able to tell what you're dealing with then. 

Next, start working roots across the bottom like a normal repot.  Cut back any heavy roots growing straight down.  You may find that you end up taking another inch off the bottom.

Then start looking for the nebari, removing crossing roots, etc. 

Now, decide which half you're going to bare root.  Front or back.    I would bare root the weakest side.  Work that with your root hook and bent tip tweezers combing out the old bark/sand mix as best you can, getting under the trunk if you can.  Once you get it as clean as you can, use a water hose to help.  Don't use high pressure, just a gentle stream to dissolve the soil off the roots.  Be careful not to destroy the other side that's not bare rooted.

When you're done, you've probably removed 3/4 of the old soil!

Finish the repot, making sure to comb out some little feeder roots out of the old root ball, so that they will be in good soil with you add new soil.

Two or three years later, bare root the other side.

Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on March 15, 2013, 01:46 PM
Thanks Adair, you're totally right.  I should've looked at my notes I made from that thread. 

"You leave roots on 1/2 of the tree with soil on them, this is insurance that functioning roots are available to support the tree. However, since you have already pruned the bottom of the entire root pad, and cleaned up the roots around the edge of the pot, cleaned up the top of the entire root pad, them bare rooted 1/2 of the remaining roots, you only end up with 15-20% of the original roots still in soil. As wayne inferred, leaving roots sticking out of the edge of the non barerooted section helps to get the new root growth started despite the bad soil."

For some stupid reason, I had it in my head not to cut the root mass in half.  And on this tree, one side is VERY's the side that the main nebari is on, and that dries out completely.  It's only the other side that never dries out. 

I did make one mistake on this pine though...I'm willing to admit lol, and that was I removed too many old needles last fall.  Not fatal, but a stupid mistake.

Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 27, 2013, 05:47 PM
Looking at my records, I just realized that I had forgotten my Feb. overwintering anti fungal spray.  Now I'm once again having tip blight on a shimpaku, and this JBP.  Lost a key branch already.  Last yr. this kicked me in my ass, loosing sev. trees despite treatment.  I'm very angry with myself over forgetting the spray as I might've prevented this attack.  Oh well.  I sprayed them yest. with Bonide Fusion and Daconil.  Today I sprayed them with copper.

The bad soil conditions of this JBP exacerbates the problem.   I need to do that partial repot we discussed in another thread.  But I'm hesitant to do it with the fungal disease.  Should I wait till I'm sure I got the blight under control before the repot?

Thanks guys,

Edit:  I also sprayed all my evergreens.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Adair M on April 27, 2013, 09:40 PM
I'd go ahead and do the partial repot.  Trees with healthy root systems can fight off the fungus problems.  It might be getting the fugus because it needs a repot.
Title: Re: JBP Project
Post by: Chrisl on April 28, 2013, 09:56 AM
Thanks Adair!  Appreciate the advice!