Author Topic: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings  (Read 3582 times)

Chrisl

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Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« on: March 03, 2012, 03:33 PM »
to finished tree's in 20 yrs, all pot grown and trained.  I'm sitting here reading this from Bonsai Today, issue 106 by Matauo Mitsuya.  It's very well written and explained with pictures from seedling to a finished tree.  And John, this is very applicable to what we were just discussing.  How the bark of old age, compared to in ground trees, is so much more pronounced from trees grown in pots. 
Heck, I figure I got at least 20 more yrs lol, so I'm going to just grow my seedlings the way Mr. Mitsuya wrote about.  It was very impressive way to a gorgeous finished tree with bark to match the age of the tree.  Kinda strange timing for me to read this right now.
 

Adair M

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2012, 07:26 PM »
Ok, I haven't seen the article. But, starting with a nice trunk, grown in the ground, maybe 6 or 8 years old, and pot it and start working on the branches.  Wouldn't we have nice bark in 20 years?  And an even nicer trunk?

(Not argueing, just discussing.)

Adair
 

Chrisl

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2012, 07:57 PM »
I don't know exactly Adair.  Though I'm pretty sure that John K. has told me in the past that growing a tree in a pot vs. ground ends up with a more refined tree overall.  Better bark, nebari, ramification...  It's an interesting idea, though I think there's no short cuts to greatness ;)  I'm hope John will chime in and give us his thoughts on this.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 03:14 AM »
Bonsai today 12, 20, etc. all discuss this. The issue is that we westerners all want Kokufu trees in 10 years.  The key to everything is that you have to have an understanding that while we may start the process, we mayn't be there when the finish line is crossed.
 

JRob

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 07:46 AM »
Good Morning John,

Is the finish line ever crossed with a tree at all? Isn't there always something else to be tweaked? In our society of quick fixes and instant gratification we need to have an internal paradigm shift and develop the patience to enjoy the process knowing as you so correctly stated we will never see most of our trees even come close to that finish line. YEt we can enjoy them each and every day.

JRob
 

Chrisl

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 10:48 AM »
That's why that article is so interesting and motivating:  it goes the whole route, from seed to finished tree in 20-30 yrs.  Patience and technique are the key.   
 

John Kirby

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 10:22 PM »
Jeffrey, yes, sometimes the finish line is crossed for trees. They grow too large, they shed their branches, they give up and die. The point I was making is that everyone is always in a rush. Even the Japanese professional growers, artists, etc. the rapid growing of small trees in pots has been published for decades, folks should try it- then try to figure out which steps were left out of the process. I have trees raised this way, started decades ago.  One hint, the big escape branch scars never completely heal. Hmmm, now what are you going to do?
 

Treebeard55

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 08:07 AM »
Chris, I saw that article too. Very clear, well written (and translated.) If I could expect another 30-35 years on this earth I would try the full process, for the understanding (and the fun!) if nothing else.

Mr. Mituya does set out a Plan B, which takes less time but (presumably) won't give you quite such a show-stopper when done. If JBP were more than marginally hardy here I would probably try that.

But John's comment gives me pause: that the pruning scars from large sacrifice branches never completely go away. That would mean that you must either keep all the big sacrifice branches on the back, or plan to incorporate the scars in your final design.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 10:08 AM »
THese trees were grown as described in Mitsuya-san's article. Probably 40+ years old or so, the tree below is structurally the better tree, notice the scar on the front? that front branch has been gone for several decades.

http://bonsaistudygroup.com/japanese-black-pine-discussion/two-jbp-to-start-a-'work-in-progress'-post-on/
 

Chrisl

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 10:35 AM »
I do see it John.  Strange as the article said the scars would become invisible over decades.  It doesn't look so though sadly...
 

Adair M

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Re: Great Article on Growing Pines from Seed/Seedlings
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2012, 11:43 AM »
I've tried posting some scans I made of a couple of adverts from a Japanese language magazine from the mid 1980's I used to subscribe to.  For some reason my post isn't showing up.  Maybe they're too big.

Anyway, I've never seen stock like this in the US.  The stock looks very simiar to the trees that John shows in his post.  If the stock is completely container grown from seed to finished tree, John is absolutely correct, you certainly can get superior stock when container grown.

I'll try to post this, then update it withthe pictures.

Adair