Bonsai Study Group Forum

Advanced Techniques => Advanced Grafting Discussion => Topic started by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 11:04 AM

Title: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 11:04 AM
1.) Out of its pot for first repot since I've had it.
2.) Bare-rooted and root work beginning.
3.) Initial root work, and initial cut.
4.) Profile
Title: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 11:06 AM
5.) Bottom of what was cut off.
6.) Top of what was cut off.
7.) After the initial cut was cleaned up and nibbled away a little more
8.) Sizing up the first root (approach?) graft.
Title: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 11:10 AM
9.) Drill a hole.
10.) Fit the root in and wedge a toothpick in (this toothpick broke as you'll see in the following pictures.)
11.) Underneath view.
12.) Side view.

It should be noted, this root is attached to the tree.  Go slowly with the drill as to not burn/damage the cambium.  The root was clipped to length, the top shaved/scratched w/ a grafting knife, and wedged into the trunk at the desired location.
Title: Re: New Trident full of options
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2011, 11:13 AM
13.) Drilling a bigger hole.
14.) Scratching/scraping the top of the scion.
15.) Positioning the scion root.
16.) Toothpick wedged into place.

The same idea, but this time the root was removed from the tree before it was grafted into place.  It is considerably larger (slightly smaller than my pinky maybe.  Look at the pics) and less flexible as a result.

I still need to apply a layer of sphagnum moss while this one waits for spring.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: MatsuBonsai on March 01, 2011, 11:15 AM
Excellent thread.  Do keep us posted on the progress of this one.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: Jerry Norbury on March 01, 2011, 06:48 PM
What kind of success rate should be expected?

Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on March 02, 2011, 12:15 AM
I think the success rate for the approach grafts are pretty high.  I'm not certain about the other.
Title: Re: New Trident full of options
Post by: bwaynef on March 06, 2011, 08:56 PM
16.) Toothpick wedged into place.

Just noticed that in this picture you can see the root of the first (approach) graft to give you a different look at what's going on.
(http://bonsaistudygroup.com/advanced-grafting-discussion/root-grafting-on-trident/?action=dlattach;attach=9075;image)

There's a thick root jutting out to the right.  Off of that there's a smaller root that loops toward the trunk.  Its a little difficult to make out where it fits into the trunk from this angle, but there's a little more  info on what's going on.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: Brent on May 18, 2011, 03:02 AM
Hi Wayne,
 
I followed your link to these excellent threads on your Trident from another forum, and am quite happy I did so as I was unaware of this particular forum and it seems to have a very helpful, friendly yet professional atmosphere, which I like.

It's been a couple of months - how are the root grafts doing?

Regards
Brent
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on May 18, 2011, 08:19 AM
I'm just watering and fertilizing right now.  I probably won't know until the fall when I clean up the soil (soji?) from the detritus that's formed this year.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: nathanbs on May 18, 2011, 10:16 AM
so just curious about the approach graft. Does it matter that the root is backwards now compared to its original direction of flow? I always thought branches and roots had a one way flow.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on May 18, 2011, 10:19 AM
I was told that it wouldn't, so I'll have to trust what I was told until experience shows something else. 
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: garywood on May 18, 2011, 10:32 AM
Wayne, are you expecting a change in polarity in the approach graft?
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: nathanbs on May 18, 2011, 04:09 PM
Wayne, are you expecting a change in polarity in the approach graft?

This is the same question as mine i believe. Can anybody shed light on this, and whether its different for roots versus branches?
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on May 18, 2011, 08:20 PM
Gary, I believe your question is the same as nathan's, so my answer to him is the same as for you.  Right now, I'm expecting that as that's what I was told would happen.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: nathanbs on June 30, 2011, 04:14 PM
any updates? Do the roots look like they took?
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: nathanbs on June 30, 2011, 04:17 PM
nevermind i just saw on the other trident thread that you said you were leaving them alone for a while
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on June 30, 2011, 04:20 PM
Since this thread really ought to have a link to the other thread:
http://bonsaistudygroup.com/trident-maple-discussion/new-trident-full-of-options/ (http://bonsaistudygroup.com/trident-maple-discussion/new-trident-full-of-options/)

As mentioned, its just now showing signs of thriving so I haven't messed with the roots any.  I suspect this new vigor is a good sign, though not necessarily indicative that the grafts have taken.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: steve on October 11, 2012, 01:19 PM
So, did it work?
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on November 26, 2012, 02:32 PM
It certainly didn't kill the tree, but in hindsight it was too drastic a reduction.  The tree sulked most of that year and took a little while to get going this past year ...while never getting a full head of steam.  I plan to repot it this spring and hope to be able to tell you that all the grafts took ...or at least that there's an awesome nebari just waiting to grow into its own. 

We'll see.
Title: Re: Root-Grafting on Trident
Post by: bwaynef on February 28, 2014, 10:26 AM
I believe a COUPLE of these grafts may have taken.  I'd recommend this procedure again, but not with such a drastic treatment of the other roots.  THAT made this tree sulk for several months, and didn't really see it growing well the next year either.  It finally got a full head of steam late this past summer. 

I think that the 2 years before it really got going doomed most of these grafts.  On another note, there are several new roots that've grown as a result of the drastic reduction of the other roots though.