Author Topic: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft  (Read 5938 times)

scottroxburgh

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« on: June 15, 2014, 11:15 PM »
Apparently this technique is used at Chikugo-en in LA, by the Ishii family.



I have been to the nursery, and have to say that the grafting was done quite well, a number of them you couldn't tell that the tree was grafted. I had not heard of this technique before and did not know that the Ishii family used it.

I'd be interested in any thoughts others might have, and also if anyone has tried it?

This is my understanding of the process:

« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 11:19 PM by scottroxburgh »
 

buddhamonk

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 01:44 AM »
Michael Hagedorn taught me that technique. The scion goes into the most proximal cut (not the last one). The two cuts above that are used to prevent oxin produced by the foliage above from reaching the scion and suppressing its growth...
 

bwaynef

  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Thanked: 33 times
  • USDA Zone: 8a
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 02:25 PM »
I haven't watched the video (yet).  What is the point of doing it this way? 
 

robertji

  • Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2014, 07:31 PM »
Proximal as in the scion goes in the nearest cut to the roots? I couldn't tell from the video, I assumed it to be the furthest from the roots. Thanks, Jim.
 

scottroxburgh

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 12:17 AM »
Interesting, I had thought that the scion went in at the highest cut, but it inhibiting auxins makes sense.

Any more experience doing grafts this way?
 

FrankP999

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2014, 06:05 AM »
Can someone please clarify which of the three cuts into which the scion is inserted? Someone said "proximal" but proximal to what?

I would take proximal to mean "closer" to the body of the plant's main trunk - that is the innermost cut. The diagram appears to show the scion inserted into the furthest cut which would be "distal" if I use the language of proximal/distal as in medical terminology describing the various parts of the body. For example, the proximal end of your thigh bone is toward the hip, the distal end is at the knee.

Thanks
 

Sorce

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 789
  • Thanked: 1 times
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2014, 06:11 AM »
This is a bit confusing. ???

 

M. Frary

  • Full Forum Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 204
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2014, 07:51 AM »
This is a bit confusing. ???


I guess we just ride it out and it will all be made clear?
 

Judy

  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 08:41 AM »
I too would like to understand this better.  It sounds like Buddha is saying that it goes into the closest cut to the trunk.  The other 2 cuts being to prevent the auxins from the foliage further out on the branch to the scion. Is this correct?

Is this also applicable to deciduous and other trees than juniper?
 

bwaynef

  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Thanked: 33 times
  • USDA Zone: 8a
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2014, 08:48 AM »
At 3:10-ish in the second video, he's asked this question and the asker suggest it goes in the cut closest to the roots, but Miyahara (sp?) says it goes in the one furthest from the roots.
 

bwaynef

  • Administrator
  • Hero Forum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1785
  • Thanked: 33 times
  • USDA Zone: 8a
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2014, 08:51 AM »
Also, in the first video he says:

As to why he makes three cuts:
"I don't really know.  That's just the way my teacher does it."

He goes postulates a few reasons as to why this method might be effective.
"Its laminated so it heals faster and its easier to make the thing stop at where you want it to stop."

All this after admitting that his Japanese teacher (Mr. Ishii) teaches him without teaching him (...exactly what he means).  For instance, he said his teacher told him to tie the graft in tight but not too tight.  It took him 3 years to learn.  Too tight the first time.  Too loose the second time.  Apparently he got it right the third year.
 

buddhamonk

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2014, 02:16 PM »
There should be any confusion as to which is proximal and which is distal (it's like saying I'm confused but right and left). The way Michael Hagedorn does it makes physiological sense since the distal cuts are meant to stop auxins from reaching the scion.

Putting the scion in the distal cut would likely compromise its survival because the proximal cuts would decrease the amount of water reaching the scion.

Of note - I have a done a lot of grafting in the last three years and this technique works as well as doing a single cut. I don't think I've really noticed much difference in survival.

BTW I don't do the saliva =)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 02:18 PM by buddhamonk »
 

buddhamonk

  • Legit New User
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Grafting juniper with three laminated cuts per graft
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2014, 03:23 PM »
Here's a screen shot of the graft from the video. He does put the graft in the most distal cut (he calls it the last one). He says it heals better with his technique.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 03:26 PM by buddhamonk »