Author Topic: Need help with collecting oaks  (Read 8225 times)

John Kirby

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2011, 09:01 PM »
I worked at that fine institution for 13 years, my wife for 18. Was good to us, will always have a warm place in the heart for the UofA.
 

jw

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2011, 09:21 PM »
Bella Vista is a different animal than Fayetteville. But I catch your drift.  I'll check with the lake and rec department and it shouldn't be a problem
 

rockm

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2011, 02:06 PM »
"Dig em. My wife and I moved from Arkansas to CT this last spring, there is very little concern for shrubbery or digging. Good luck, John"

Ignoring permissions and assuming others really don't care is not only a recipe for getting fined, or possibly worse (wetlands and shorelines can be VERY protected areas), simply digging these trees which are not yours is not really moral is it? It can also reflect on other bonsai folks who do make the effort to get permission.

Sorry, but jeez, such a sense of entitlement stains us all as bonsaiists

Might be true that no one cares, but YOU should. What are you gonna say if someone --maybe the neighbor--DOES take issue with your stealing--er--collecting--those trees? What if you're in the middle of digging them up (if you have the nerve to do it in daylight) and the landowner (SOMEONE owns the land) shows up and asks what's up?

And for what it's worth, as attractive as these trunks are, if you're starting out and have no experience digging oaks --if that's what they indeed are (the photos are pretty ambiguous)---then you run the risk of killing them outright. Trunks with decent potential should be dug carefully, with permission and with some experience. If they were in my vicinity, I'd use the next couple of years collecting lesser trees of the same species and seeing if I could get them to grow and THEN think about digging those great trunks.

Also FWIW, in collecting, sometimes the answer is just "no." It's not what you want to hear, but sometimes you don't get what you want.
 
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John Kirby

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2011, 05:13 PM »
Rock, I guess you just have to live there. In California, in the urban "east" or national/state forests, I would not suggest collecting. But in Benton, Washington and Madison Counties in Arkansas, easements and roadsides are not "regulated", everywhere I requested permission to dig, in the beginning, I was laughed at and told to take what I wanted, don't leave any holes and pick up the branches and stuff you prune. Further, I found some great spots to dig Junipers (that had been mowed year after year in Benton County), but sadly they had been hit with Post/roundup as they worked to kill out the woody weeds in the easement (under power lines leading to lake).

Send me to Hell. But, he isn't in one of those places where you can't build a fence or paint your house a different color without permission of the town council.
 
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jw

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2011, 05:45 PM »
I didn't mean to start anything fellas.  You're right the property is owned by someone.  The Bella Vista Property Owners Association, which I'm a part of because I own property in Bella Vista.  I also work for the Association and know people in the lakes department.  It's not gonna be hard to get the permission.  My main concern is keeping them alive, so if anyone has any tips on collecting oaks that would be great.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2011, 05:52 PM »
What kind of Oaks are they? There are 8 or so native to the area. Nothing started, Rock is correct, I have chosen to disagree.
 

rockm

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2011, 06:05 PM »
I understand the "take what you want" response in rural areas. I'm from a rural area myself. I've learned that things like this really don't make that much difference to most people UNTIL they do. ;D In my neck of the woods, if you're digging on someone else's land without permission and that person is not all that sociable or understanding, it's a good way to get a butt full of birdshot...Everyone I grew up with in western Va. (and in Texas) was armed...Best to seek permission before digging, especially in the South, at least that's been my experience. If there is an association involved, definitely seek permission. I've been on association boards. Some board members can be, well, little tyrants...

As for collecting these particular trees, if permission is not hard to get, why the rush? If you've never collected oaks, why make these nice examples your "learning trees?" Why not find some lesser trunks of the same species in the same area and collect those to learn what you're up against as far as tap roots, soil and other bugaboos that happen locally. Understanding those locally specific things goes a long way towards getting choice specimens like these out alive.

You're probably not going to get all that much advice from people who have dug eastern oaks for bonsai, as they're not all that common. I've dug White Oak (quercus alba) and willow oak (quercus phellos). White oak species (there are more eastern oak species that considered in the white oak family) are not that easy to dig, although they're a lot easier than conifer species. They are not forgiving in the root department. They usually come with massive tap roots that don't like to be disturbed, at least all at once and feeder roots have to be tracked to the finer ends.Once you get them into a container, they act kind of strangely. Bonsai leaf reduction techniques, for instance, like leaf pruning, can result in larger leaves...

Willow oak is much easier and more forgiving. I don't think those are willow oaks, though.
 
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jw

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2011, 05:14 PM »
Appreciate the advice guys.  I'll practice on a couple with less potential this spring.  Do you think I can go ahead and dig a ring around the nicer ones in the spring without much chance of harming them (to encourage finer feeder roots in closer to the trunk)?  The one with dead leaves looks like a chestnut oak.  The others I'll have to wait until spring I guess.
 

Larry Gockley

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2011, 10:14 PM »
I agree with rockm, in that oak may not be your best choice. Maybe you could find a maple or if there is water, how about a bald cypress. A member of the Lake Charles club actually has a sycamore with drastically reduced leaves. Good luck.Larry
 

jw

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2011, 02:56 PM »
I agree Larry, oaks are going to be one of the harder species to collect and train into bonsai.  There are plenty of elms, maples, sweetgum, pines, junipers, dogwoods, crabapples, hackberry, mullberry, and the list goes on and on.  And I've got some of the aforementioned in training.  I just think I'm ready to try my hand at an oak or two.
 

John Kirby

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2011, 05:00 PM »
When you are comfortable with collecting the Oaks, dig them and place them in good sized nursery containers with a good light soil mix. It may take several years for them to get good and strong, or because they are being placed in a better environment they may take off quickly. You will likely have a multi year repotting program to reduce the tap and develop surface rooting. Good luck.
 

Elliott

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 11:57 AM »
I think like John said, Dig them. They will get pulled and destroyed before they grow bigger and messs with the structure of the dam anyways.. Get a bonsai magazine with pics of raw yamadori and finished trees and show it to the nearby home owners and you may even get some help. Offer to plant anything else of there choice in those spots such as wildflowers, etc. Beware that you may get some owner that suddenly thinks those "beaverdories" (Owen, your a crack up!) are worth big bucks if you show them a pic of what they can look like in the right hands in 20 years.
 Or better yet, contact the closest Bonsai club and you will probably get a good idea of how to go about it. If someone in the club finds a safe, legal way with proper methods to dig those, its worth letting them have one of the 3.
Do you know what kind of oaks those are? oaks are my favorite material but I'm from Los Angeles and I'M not familiar with any of the "Quercus Rednecki" species ::)
Good luck and happy new year!!
 

Potawatomi13

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Re: Need help with collecting oaks
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2016, 02:59 AM »
I am Oak fan.  Have seen it said they should be repotted or roots messed with in winter(now?).  Also need to be sure to get as many fine feeder roots as possible while shortening tap root as much as possible.  May take years of root work to get into a pot.  Look like good trees to collect ;).  Would be happy to do in your place.